Those who think there's no agenda need to read this...

sjk2008 said:
tony de wonderful said:
What you mean 'too much about Webb'?

You see him on TV adverts now. No ref should be whoring themselves out like that. I'm just saying a ref like that has his own persona and media darling status to uphold not necessarily his professional integrity. If he has to choose he will sacrifice integrity. Would Webb want Fergie slamming him in the media? No because Fergie has a big mouth and everyone listens to him.<br /><br />-- Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:55 pm --<br /><br />
sjk2008 said:
tony de wonderful said:
Yep Webb is the wost for that, he's a boot-licker to the footie and media establishment. Invariably that means not upsetting anyone important to much and going with the status quo (i.e pleasing the big clubs like United). I really think the guy is a toad and I have no respect for him. Webb is too much about Webb.

I think he upset a lot of people when he refused to send off NDJ for a karate kick in the WORLD CUP FINAL (a match in which only the world's best referees can take part in).

I might be wrong but I'm sure he explained his decision as to why he didn't.

It's because he didn't want to be embarrassed as THAT ref who sent off 3 or 4 players in a world cup final. Then he would look bad.
 
Suspiciously Phil Dowd is ref for Wigan v Rags tonight, the same ref who did Scum 5-0 Wigan (awful decision on Sammon red) earlier this season. Also he cost Villa the Carling Cup by not sending Vidic off in the 5th minute last year.The fourth official is J.Moss(no influence) We get Foy for Norwich(one of the WWFT refs, and 4th official for tonight) . I'm not saying it's fixed for definite, but I'm not ruling it out either.
 
tony de wonderful said:
sjk2008 said:
tony de wonderful said:
What you mean 'too much about Webb'?

You see him on TV adverts now. No ref should be whoring themselves out like that. I'm just saying a ref like that has his own persona and media darling status to uphold not necessarily his professional integrity. If he has to choose he will sacrifice integrity. Would Webb want Fergie slamming him in the media? No because Fergie has a big mouth and everyone listens to him.

-- Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:55 pm --

sjk2008 said:
tony de wonderful said:
Yep Webb is the wost for that, he's a boot-licker to the footie and media establishment. Invariably that means not upsetting anyone important to much and going with the status quo (i.e pleasing the big clubs like United). I really think the guy is a toad and I have no respect for him. Webb is too much about Webb.

I think he upset a lot of people when he refused to send off NDJ for a karate kick in the WORLD CUP FINAL (a match in which only the world's best referees can take part in).

I might be wrong but I'm sure he explained his decision as to why he didn't.

It's because he didn't want to be embarrassed as THAT ref who sent off 3 or 4 players in a world cup final. Then he would look bad.

Collina was on a number of tv adverts. He was even the face of the Pro Evolution Soccer series on PS3/Xbox. Yet he was/is highly regarded as the best referee of modern times. What's your point here?
 
when i see a team awarded a penalty for nothing and utd have a player sent off for not committing a foul against someone in an offside position, in a crucial game, then the balance might start to shift regarding the evidence of bias. If it happens a dozen times it still wont correct the discrepancies but it's a start.
 
sjk2008 said:
Collina was on a number of tv adverts. He was even the face of the Pro Evolution Soccer series on PS3/Xbox. Yet he was/is highly regarded as the best referee of modern times. What's your point here?

I think he was an exception. Just because one highly respected ref was on adverts doesn't mean that in general this sort of celebrity and commercialism for refs is not corrosive and bad for the game.
 
tony de wonderful said:
sjk2008 said:
Collina was on a number of tv adverts. He was even the face of the Pro Evolution Soccer series on PS3/Xbox. Yet he was/is highly regarded as the best referee of modern times. What's your point here?

I think he was an exception. Just because one highly respected ref was on adverts doesn't mean that in general this sort of celebrity and commercialism for refs is not corrosive and bad for the game.

But there isn't a general commercialism amongst referees is there? Webb has appeared in ad advert. That's it.

I don't think that should be held against him.

Until video technology comes into play (which IMO it will do), the main thing I would like changing regarding MAJOR refereeing decisions given is that the referees themselves go public about why such a decision was decided. Not for every decision that's awarded, just the major ones like the Kompany red & Young dive/penalty.

At least then we can get a perspective on how a decision was reached. Even if it meant them apologising once they have realised they've made an error.
 
danburge82 said:
The thing is, referees do not tie our lads boot laces together or pull their shorts down as they're about to shoot.
Apart from at Everton Swansea and Stoke we have had the chances to have won every single other game (some by quite a margin), yet WE have missed the chances (some absolute sitters). If we had taken our chances we would currently have 84 points. Regardless of ANYTHING you can point at, we would have 84 points had we taken the chances that we actually created.

Referees barely influence games. Yes one decision can change a game frbutchers it just stood, but one decision is made in a second and there are 5399 other seconds in a game to do your own thing. In the three games I listed above, our own things we did were not of a high enough standard and we deserved nothing. However in games at Liverpool Chelsea WestBrom Sunderland(away) and Sunderland(home) we had the chances to win the games comfortably - yet, we didn't win them as we didn't take our chances.

Tgere are other reasons we're not top:
I think that, as a squad, we are behind United. When key individuals are missing for us, we are not the same side; at United you don't notice who is missing when players are out because it is a seemless transition.

I think that fat scar necked ****, Tevez, is way way WAY ahead of all the referee decisions that have gone against us, put together, as a reason why we're not top.

I also think their experience in the team and manager of winning the Premier League is a reason why we're not top.


I do think they get decisions that other clubs don't get. But I also see Wigan in Rugby League and Leicester in rugby yawnion, I look at some things that have gone on in motor sports to favour the big boys, I look at the way football clubs are allowed to run on the losess they do and get away with fucking unbelievable stuff yet smaller sports get hammered by banks and the Inland Revenue, etc...

When you're a top dog you get away with more, it's a fact of life. We are far from being a top dog. We've finished in the top three once under Sheikh Mansour, we're still the track suit family who won the lottery, we're nobodies in the eyes of the establishment. To them we're no bigger than Swansea City are to us. As bad as that sounds, it's true. Swansea have been out of the top league for decades and have hardly ever been up their throughout their history. City has finished in the top three just five times since the war; we've challenged for the title just five times in our entire history before this season. To the likes of United Liverpool and Arsenal, that is proper small time, and it is to the eyes of the media and the governing body it will be the same.

However we are growing, we are not going away. We will establish ourselves as a top club and we will eventually be seen in a different light. The track suit family's kids who has grown up with money will be viewed as rich kids and not the track suit family who won the lottery. Eventually we will get decisions to our way that other clubs moan about. This isn't an agenda, it's just the way things are. Subconsciously officials will referee games with the top dogs differently to the way they would ref other teams. And it will happen for us in years to come.

Only just started to read this thread and on page 2 is the best post of the thread.
 
RACHACE said:
danburge82 said:
The thing is, referees do not tie our lads boot laces together or pull their shorts down as they're about to shoot.
Apart from at Everton Swansea and Stoke we have had the chances to have won every single other game (some by quite a margin), yet WE have missed the chances (some absolute sitters). If we had taken our chances we would currently have 84 points. Regardless of ANYTHING you can point at, we would have 84 points had we taken the chances that we actually created.

Referees barely influence games. Yes one decision can change a game frbutchers it just stood, but one decision is made in a second and there are 5399 other seconds in a game to do your own thing. In the three games I listed above, our own things we did were not of a high enough standard and we deserved nothing. However in games at Liverpool Chelsea WestBrom Sunderland(away) and Sunderland(home) we had the chances to win the games comfortably - yet, we didn't win them as we didn't take our chances.

Tgere are other reasons we're not top:
I think that, as a squad, we are behind United. When key individuals are missing for us, we are not the same side; at United you don't notice who is missing when players are out because it is a seemless transition.

I think that fat scar necked ****, Tevez, is way way WAY ahead of all the referee decisions that have gone against us, put together, as a reason why we're not top.

I also think their experience in the team and manager of winning the Premier League is a reason why we're not top.


I do think they get decisions that other clubs don't get. But I also see Wigan in Rugby League and Leicester in rugby yawnion, I look at some things that have gone on in motor sports to favour the big boys, I look at the way football clubs are allowed to run on the losess they do and get away with fucking unbelievable stuff yet smaller sports get hammered by banks and the Inland Revenue, etc...

When you're a top dog you get away with more, it's a fact of life. We are far from being a top dog. We've finished in the top three once under Sheikh Mansour, we're still the track suit family who won the lottery, we're nobodies in the eyes of the establishment. To them we're no bigger than Swansea City are to us. As bad as that sounds, it's true. Swansea have been out of the top league for decades and have hardly ever been up their throughout their history. City has finished in the top three just five times since the war; we've challenged for the title just five times in our entire history before this season. To the likes of United Liverpool and Arsenal, that is proper small time, and it is to the eyes of the media and the governing body it will be the same.

However we are growing, we are not going away. We will establish ourselves as a top club and we will eventually be seen in a different light. The track suit family's kids who has grown up with money will be viewed as rich kids and not the track suit family who won the lottery. Eventually we will get decisions to our way that other clubs moan about. This isn't an agenda, it's just the way things are. Subconsciously officials will referee games with the top dogs differently to the way they would ref other teams. And it will happen for us in years to come.

Only just started to read this thread and on page 2 is the best post of the thread.

seconded
 

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