Ticket Points Sales Tracking

[Prestwich_Blue]

Digital tickets are easier to pass on than paper tickets

But the club can monitor it, which means they can see who's passing tickets on and who they're passing them to.

 

[Chappie]

But the club can monitor it, which means they can see who's passing tickets on and who they're passing them to.

How can they do that for away matches.
The ticket is sent as a email for you to download, if I chose to forward that email onto someone else, they wouldn't know.

 

[Mcfc1.9.8.0]

But the club can monitor it, which means they can see who's passing tickets on and who they're passing them to.

How unless they can find out what phone it’s downloaded to

 

[fathellensbellend]

I also wanted to flag that the Club are keen to revisit the idea of collection for some away tickets.

They raised this at our latest City Matters meeting, which can be found in the minutes.

https://www.mancity.com/meta/media/...ll-group-minutes-monday-14th-october-2024.pdf

The Club highlighted concerns with fans attending away matches when they have not purchased in line with the criteria and the idea of going back to ticket collection at the away match for a number of tickets. This topic and the Club’s proposal will be discussed in more detail in the City Matters Ticketing sub-group.

Again, I would welcome views.

work 6 days a week, my spare time is precious, i have no desire to be stood in a queue collecting tickets when i have spent a small fortune to get there, yesterday went to all season ticket holders, it was a complete ballache in terms of kick off time, ensuring left in good time to make connections home, in fact Spurs in the league cup and yesterday had to duck out on 90 mins or would have struggled to get home on both occasions. If someone said you had to piss about getting tickets that would have been enough to sack it off, the sheer volume of games now is becoming a chore, transport is becoming a chore, cost is becoming a chore, kick off times a chore, throw in collect your tickets and i think the tv would become very appealing, it's not far away now to be honest

 

[bladdered]

I've had a season ticket now for nearly 50 years but only have under 10K points.

Mainly because I refused to pay the disgraceful Platinum tax. So away games for me are usually Wembley even though I used to do them all BITD.

My main gripe though is for youngsters getting on board. What chance have they got of building up a points record?

Us FOCs will be gone soon and we need a system that helps the next generation getting on board.

 

[East Level 2]

I've had a season ticket now for nearly 50 years but only have under 10K points.

Mainly because I refused to pay the disgraceful Platinum tax. So away games for me are usually Wembley even though I used to do them all BITD.

My main gripe though is for youngsters getting on board. What chance have they got of building up a points record?

Us FOCs will be gone soon and we need a system that helps the next generation getting on board.

When FOCs go to the Kippax in the sky their points go with them leaving room for the next generation to build points.
One of the main problems at City is that there are a hell of a lot of FOCs who witnessed a few decades of crap and won't willingly surrender their season tickets while they are capable of getting to games.

 

[meeesh]

I've had a season ticket now for nearly 50 years but only have under 10K points.

Mainly because I refused to pay the disgraceful Platinum tax. So away games for me are usually Wembley even though I used to do them all BITD.

My main gripe though is for youngsters getting on board. What chance have they got of building up a points record?

Us FOCs will be gone soon and we need a system that helps the next generation getting on board.

There’s plenty of young uns in away end from what I’ve seen and plenty of “tourist” fans as well and how the fuck they have tickets is beyond my reckoning because they all aren’t paying 3rd party sites at 200 a pop surely

The points system at City is and always will be bullshit just like the ticket office we’ve had for plenty and I mean plenty years absolutely shit

 

[Big Joe Corrigan]

work 6 days a week, my spare time is precious, i have no desire to be stood in a queue collecting tickets when i have spent a small fortune to get there, yesterday went to all season ticket holders, it was a complete ballache in terms of kick off time, ensuring left in good time to make connections home, in fact Spurs in the league cup and yesterday had to duck out on 90 mins or would have struggled to get home on both occasions. If someone said you had to piss about getting tickets that would have been enough to sack it off, the sheer volume of games now is becoming a chore, transport is becoming a chore, cost is becoming a chore, kick off times a chore, throw in collect your tickets and i think the tv would become very appealing, it's not far away now to be honest

I doubt Mr and Mrs Hospitality will be expected to collect their tickets at an away game?

 

[Alex - Not City Matters]

Thanks for your message, Colin.

It was before your time so if you don't believe me, then ask Simon & Kevin.

We've had this discussion before as part of CM and you're the only one making the case for reintroducing away ticket points. But then you've got high points so you would be in favour. Be careful you don't get accused of acting in self interest, like I have. However, there are ways this could be done, as I describe below.

I think it's the opposite. The current system suits me perfectly. I'm practically guaranteed an away ticket for life, as I currently qualify for each and every ticket point available regardless of my away attendance. I might not attend another away game for the next ten years, but as long as I purchase my home tickets, I am guaranteed a ticket for Old Trafford or Anfield. In what world is that fair?

So it would be to my own detriment if the system changed.

As I've said to you before, your reasoning on people being able to catch up is flawed. The reason people can't catch up is that people on high points generally bought tickets even if they planned to sell them on. Whether that's to family, mates, members of their supporters clubs, on here or other social media sites like Facebook pages and Twitter. It's easy to get rid of a ticket, particularly when demand outstrips supply. This is the core of the problem and that's why the club were gathering evidence about it and wanted to stop it. For one reason, it's not fair to those with high points who miss out. For another, the risk is that tickets fall into the wrong hands, be that third party sites, touts or just individual away fans. I don't think anyone would disagree that we need to clamp down on that. If there's a way of stopping people selling on away tickets then your argument makes more sense but until there is (see below) it doesn't.

Haven't you just proved my point?

People still pass on tickets even if away ticket points aren't available, as their main intent in doing so is usually to help a friend or family.

I'd also add that my reasoning about catching people up isn't flawed. As I've set out numerous times, including my paper, the current system makes it physically impossible for quite a few supporters to catch-up and for the remainder it has greatly decreased the rate at which they can catch up.

That said, always appreciate feedback on this one. I understand there's a real range of opinion.

 

[fathellensbellend]

I doubt Mr and Mrs Hospitality will be expected to collect their tickets at an away game?

Or mister and misses Liverpool fan who will no doubt be sat in our end at Anfield in a few weeks, another attempt to suck the joy out of actually attending. I wonder how they would have implemented it yesterday, hellish logistics in getting to the ground, the town miles away from the ground, they do realise we go to enjoy the experience, I wonder if the Americans in our end yesterday would be up for a collect your ticket job

 

[johnbmcr]

Thanks for your message, Colin.


I think it's the opposite. The current system suits me perfectly. I'm practically guaranteed an away ticket for life, as I currently qualify for each and every ticket point available regardless of my away attendance. I might not attend another away game for the next ten years, but as long as I purchase my home tickets, I am guaranteed a ticket for Old Trafford or Anfield. In what world is that fair?

So it would be to my own detriment if the system changed.

Thanks for your message, Colin.


I think it's the opposite. The current system suits me perfectly. I'm practically guaranteed an away ticket for life, as I currently qualify for each and every ticket point available regardless of my away attendance. I might not attend another away game for the next ten years, but as long as I purchase my home tickets, I am guaranteed a ticket for Old Trafford or Anfield. In what world is that fair?

So it would be to my own detriment if the system changed.



Haven't you just proved my point?

People still pass on tickets even if away ticket points aren't available, as their main intent in doing so is usually to help a friend or family.

I'd also add that my reasoning about catching people up isn't flawed. As I've set out numerous times, including my paper, the current system makes it physically impossible for quite a few supporters to catch-up and for the remainder it has greatly decreased the rate at which they can catch up.

That said, always appreciate feedback on this one. I understand there's a real range of opinion.

Haven't you just proved my point?

People still pass on tickets even if away ticket points aren't available, as their main intent in doing so is usually to help a friend or family.

I'd also add that my reasoning about catching people up isn't flawed. As I've set out numerous times, including my paper, the current system makes it physically impossible for quite a few supporters to catch-up and for the remainder it has greatly decreased the rate at which they can catch up.

That said, always appreciate feedback on this one. I understand there's a real range of opinion.

Home points for 1000s diminished through covid widening the gap

The away regime double points for platinum blew the gap apart.

I seem to recall from 2018 away games were supposed to include random checks so the purchaser actually attended the game.

Huge numbers employed subterfuge to exploit this safe in the knowledge it would never be enforced.



There are a number of fair mathematical models that can demonstrate how to reduce the divide, supplimented by a one off incentives to those at the top to give up their point's or reach a cap.Leveling up for others

A popular and widely supported equitable reset that the club could after consultation deploy meaning a average of 15-18000 points for most .

That's the easy bit .Big obstacles include the clubs loathing to scrap platinum as it brings in cash for nothing about 3/4 million in 2018.

A mere drop in the oil well.

it would be better if the c
OSC cooperated but again a major obstacle as they hover up a large percentage of tickets

CM could advocate schemes that can address the problem based on some principles not piecemeal changes

have a set percentage of tickets for season card Match day members 60% minimum so about 2000 for most games

cap points and level up/down to a mean average

stop the osc allocation

Enforce the away rule so a larger number will have a better chance of a game . However you must go. No substitutes if you cannot attend sell back to the club to ensure fairness and give another eligble fan a chance to purchase .

scrap platinum

The above is instantly fairer more inclusive explainable & easily defended than the current hochpoch.

Now with more and more digital tickets cheap to manage and operationalise


A system for the "many not the few"

After all unlike the house of Lords unearned privilege chance and who you know shouldn't be for life.

Thanks for your message, Colin.


I think it's the opposite. The current system suits me perfectly. I'm practically guaranteed an away ticket for life, as I currently qualify for each and every ticket point available regardless of my away attendance. I might not attend another away game for the next ten years, but as long as I purchase my home tickets, I am guaranteed a ticket for Old Trafford or Anfield. In what world is that fair?

So it would be to my own detriment if the system changed.



Haven't you just proved my point?

People still pass on tickets even if away ticket points aren't available, as their main intent in doing so is usually to help a friend or family.

I'd also add that my reasoning about catching people up isn't flawed. As I've set out numerous times, including my paper, the current system makes it physically impossible for quite a few supporters to catch-up and for the remainder it has greatly decreased the rate at which they can catch up.

That said, always appreciate feedback on this one. I understand there's a real range of opinion.

 

[bainy]

It was before your time so if you don't believe me, then ask Simon & Kevin.

We've had this discussion before as part of CM and you're the only one making the case for reintroducing away ticket points. But then you've got high points so you would be in favour. Be careful you don't get accused of acting in self interest, like I have. However, there are ways this could be done, as I describe below.

As I've said to you before, your reasoning on people being able to catch up is flawed. The reason people can't catch up is that people on high points generally bought tickets even if they planned to sell them on. Whether that's to family, mates, members of their supporters clubs, on here or other social media sites like Facebook pages and Twitter. It's easy to get rid of a ticket, particularly when demand outstrips supply. This is the core of the problem and that's why the club were gathering evidence about it and wanted to stop it. For one reason, it's not fair to those with high points who miss out. For another, the risk is that tickets fall into the wrong hands, be that third party sites, touts or just individual away fans. I don't think anyone would disagree that we need to clamp down on that. If there's a way of stopping people selling on away tickets then your argument makes more sense but until there is (see below) it doesn't.

I do agree that if there's enforcement then it has to be across the board, but you might want to have a word with Kevin about what they do at OSC level to try to minimise this. On the basis of things I've been told, I believe a lot of the problem starts in Hospitality.

But there are scenarios where it would be feasible to reintroduce points. One is ticket collection at venue. As I've said, united do 100% collections and the fans support that. We maybe don't have to go that far but the level of collection has to be significant, 50 tickets doesn't cut it, and I agree it has to apply across the board, not just general admission season ticket holders.

The other, which is probably more promising, is digital ticketing, which is due to be mandatory from 2026. https://www.premierleague.com/news/4071456

If away tickets were also digital then they can be tracked and that should remove a lot of the problems.

Another thing (and I believe you're talking about this) is changing the points system. It was introduced in 2001 or 2002 I think, and were the only club who use the lifetime accumulation of points. The other 'big 6' teams, who have big away followings, use a maximum 3-year rolling system to allocate away tickets. We talked at length and in great detail about moving to a 5-year system but we were keen to ensure that there was a fair system for doing that, that didn't unfairly disadvantage existing fans with high points. But there are ways of doing that that aren't beyond the wit of the people dealing with the issues, such as you and the other CM members.

Rags do not do 100% collections, they randomly select some for pick up in destination. Rags allow you to 'forward' / pass on ur away ticket a maximum of twice per season. Rags have a 'protected' group of awayers they call 'loyalty pot members'. . these are the equivalent of our 'high pointers'. There are around 500 of these who were given protection many years ago. The number dwindles each season. They are guaranteed a away tik, subject to some conditions. All other away tiks sold to fans are subjected to a ballot.
The main issue for me is the dwindling number of tickets each season available to point holders and the increasing number available to non point holders.

 

[beermusic]

Could we introduce a system where fans have to take part in a City quiz before entering an away end - a pass rate of 20% should filter out many of the tourists who seem to source almost a quarter of the allocation especially at the bigger games.

Is Carlos Tevez injured at the moment or just out of favour?

 

[Chappie]

Rags do not do 100% collections, they randomly select some for pick up in destination. Rags allow you to 'forward' / pass on ur away ticket a maximum of twice per season. Rags have a 'protected' group of awayers they call 'loyalty pot members'. . these are the equivalent of our 'high pointers'. There are around 500 of these who were given protection many years ago. The number dwindles each season. They are guaranteed a away tik, subject to some conditions. All other away tiks sold to fans are subjected to a ballot.
The main issue for me is the dwindling number of tickets each season available to point holders and the increasing number available to non point holders.

That is exactly what United do,they also used to make you collect your European away matches ,wherever they were playing.
They have now stopped that after Scruffy Jim has made half the ticket office staff redundant.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

Could we introduce a system where fans have to take part in a City quiz before entering an away end - a pass rate of 20% should filter out many of the tourists who seem to source almost a quarter of the allocation especially at the bigger games.

Is Carlos Tevez injured at the moment or just out of favour?

Ha, it'd be on what percentage of plastic cups are recyclable at game X.

The honest away fan system died years ago, it maybe never ever really existed. I can remember people wandering up and down the queue flogging/passing on away game program covers.

 

[fathellensbellend]

On the flip side a few more shit results and we could be back to taking reduced allocations, like when those at the top of the system were earning their points, luckily it won’t be done at 50/60 quid a ticket like it was then

 

[Eds]

People with 28k+ points have those points, not because they bought tickets to not attend a game! This debate could be resolved very quickly if the club were transparent and also stopped giving tickets to reseller sites, vloggers and sponsors. If they want to watch a City game then they can come to the Etihad and watch a home game. Supposedly 20% of away tickets go to hospitality, travel partners and City staff. That needs to be reduced significantly and those tickets being redistributed amongst points holders.

​

 

[GXCity]

My mate is a Burnley ST holder and they operate a rolling 5 year loyalty point system. This what City should do in my opinion.

All those with high points will automatically start at the top so nothing changes, but they need to keep going to stay at the top. Those with low points can start building them up by going to say Spurs away in the Carabo midweek, Southampton away midweek etc and joining the cup schemes. That way 'current' loyalty is rewarded as peoples situations change

At the moment it is a closed shop, I'm on 26k so can get them for most but my lad is on 2.5k. If I miss out on the junior pull through then he can't go, and can never catch me anyway as we have the same gold ST and are on the same cup schemes. My mate's son now has the same loyalty points as him by going to Burnley away games with him for the last 5 years, and that is how it should be.

 

[Maccblue]

People keeping going on about the points system

This is only 25% of the issue

Liverpool 3000tks down to 23000 points I doubt very much it will drop that far
Palace 2600tks down to 21000 points

Stop blaming the points system for everything
You have the club the corps and the supporters clubs in this mix

 

[Chappie]

People keeping going on about the points system

This is only 25% of the issue

Liverpool 3000tks down to 23000 points I doubt very much it will drop that far
Palace 2600tks down to 21000 points

Stop blaming the points system for everything
You have the club the corps and the supporters clubs in this mix

They don't want to go to Palace ,that's how us oldens got the points we've got, we don't pick and choose,win or lose we will be there.