Time To Back The Manager...

[Plain Speaking]

I'm hearing the old "why spoil the road for ha'peth of tar?" argument and I agree to an extent. However, I also believe the squad, although thin at the moment due to ACoN, injury and suspension is still good enough to see us over the finishing line.

The owners seemingly agree. I can't blame Mancini though for wanting to make 100% sure though.

Tough one to call really.

I dont buy this, we have been realy lucky this season with injuries and are still bottom of the PL injury table. The ACN has known about for years. It is only VK's situation that is unforseen. If we want to compete against the top european sides like Barca and Real we have to recruit a little more quality. It is not beyond imagination that we will get injuries like Aguero (who has a "groin weakness"), Silva (ankle) or Balo (knee). I am not trying to be pessimistic but we should have cover if we want to make sure of the PL.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

We have to be seen to be taking FFP seriously. We may be touch and go for the first assessment at least and may have to rely on UEFA's goodwill to get through. There's no point in saying "Look, let us off this time as we're trying to comply" when we're spending £100m on 3 players every window without trying to balance the books. That's just taking the piss and we're going to need all the help we can get.

I can understand Bobby's frustration as there are key positions where we don't yet have the quality he believes we need but he has to accept it's going to have to be a more gradual process from now on.

 

[bluemoondays]

We've got the best squad in the PL, every pundit and other team's fans (if being honest) agree on that. So what if some of our backups aren't world class, name me one team with the exception of possibly Real Madrid (who make £400m/year, at least double our income) who has that quality in backup.

I do agree we probably need 2-4 top class players but January is a shit time to buy and most of our targets will be in CL or EL competitions.

Virtually every one of our backups is a seasoned international, hell, we've even got seasoned internationals who we've thrown on the scrap heap (not without reason I must add in some cases). We're top of the league, most goals scored, best defence and people want 3-4 signings to come in and "complete the picture".

Sorry to burst your bubble but if we bring in 3-4 1st teamers all we're likely to do is disrupt the current squad, have problems gelling them and make more problems than we solve. The additon of 1 or 2 we could probably cope with, any more and we are asking for trouble.

The fringes of this squad needs a good purge, I'd say at least seven players to set us up for next five years without any other spend.

Would sell - De Jong, Bridge, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Kolarov, Kolo, Tevez, Johnson, Nasri, Nimley, Weiss, Savic, Dzeko.

Normally you talk a lot of sense Tolmie but this is insane, at least 6 of those are perfectly adequate for "normal" PL games and what sort of message does selling around 8 of those players send to future transfer targets. Also, you forget to mention we may get £150m but our remaining squad size will be about 16, the four names you mention buying will probably cost close to £120m (at least) - leaving us £30m to get another 5 players for the squad or spunking even more money, endangering FFPR, when what we have is OK. Not great admittedly, but we can't afford to have 22/23 superstars in cash terms alone, never mind the ego problems. On top of that we keep getting mugged both ways on sales and buys. I've been one of Savic's and Nasri's biggest critics lately but even I think they need a season, preferably 2, before we bin them and put them on the market.

Finally, the team has gelled this season, it's obvious. Selling 8 of the current 25 man squad (33%) will mean we pretty much have to start all over again. We need to accept with the exception of maybe 3-4 more players Bobby is going to have to play the hand he's been dealt unless we get some sales and bring in replacements. Let's be honest, it's a £350m hand (at least), if he can't get something with this squad plus maybe 3-4 more of his choices then just how good is he? The squad (and Bobby) now need to man up and do what they've been brought in to do (at tremendous expense).

Out: RSC, Bridge, Adebayor, Tevez, Nimely, Weiss (not sure), Onuoha (personally I'd keep him as squad player)
Keep (unless good offer comes in): Kolo, Johnson, Kolarov, Savic
Don't Sell (unless VERY good offer comes in): NDJ, Nasri, Dzeko

Buy now: Winger (Tevez cash)
Buy Summer: World class CB + Midfielder (maybe old pro/youngster 4th striker) - Existing players for sale cash (probably need to add some)
Any Others: Need to sell more squad players first if decent offer received

I can see very few transfers coming in for the next 5 years after this January and summer so they need to be good buys.

 

[Danamy]

Also playing devils advocate, what if we have a managerial change?

Do we purge and start again?

The players we have are good enough to win this League, they just need to believe it themselves and go out and do it...........

Of the players TH mentions - only Dzeko and Nasri do I disagree with him on. The rest IMO, will go. The only uncertainty is Savic because obviously he's young and has the possibility of improving.

I agree that the players we have at our disposal are good enough to win the league - on paper. However we were good enough - on paper - to win it last season but fell short. The key is having the right balance within all areas of the squad which we simply don't have right now, because otherwise Mancini wouldn't have been going on about it since last summer.

As I keep saying, it's only three players maximum to complete the squad. I don't see what possible reason the owners could have for cutting off all spending at this juncture.

That's my point Billy, it's a complete clean sweep and start again with the new managers ideas/players.
If we have a managerial change does that mean we have to go through the whole process again?
I appreciate each manager has his own ideas but we cant keep on bankrolling all the time, there comes a time when what you have should be good enough.

To repeat myself, i thought at the start of the season this squad is good enough to win the League and that hasn't changed.

Summer is the time to review and look at things...............

 

[VOOMER]

Top players are playing in the champs league and will not leave in January.

To be honest, Mancini knows who he wants and clearly he knows those players are available otherwise he wouldn't have spent the last few weeks making such a song and dance about wanting to sign players but not being given the funds.

Mancini certainly seems to be frustrated alright, which would suggest he has targets in mind and is being told we have to sell before we can buy. I can't work out whether this is a sign that the club are genuinely starting to take FFPR seriously, or whether we want to appear as though we are. Either way, Mancini has a squad that most managers would sell their mothers for (Carrick was playing CH the other day I think), so he needs to focus on what he has got and not what he hasn't imo. No Yaya, no Kompany, no Richards, no Balotelli and still 3 points were bagged relatively comfortably...

If its Marwood who is advising we need to sell first, then its *ucking rich. He had no problem agreeing to the crock being signed, which is £20 million down the drain, Bellers who as good as he could be, was a perma crock and not realising Tevez is Kia's woman and was going after 2 years regardless thats £60 million of either mispent, or missed money. We are still 4-6 players of a champions league and premier league winning squad. The youth set up will taek 10 years at least to really bare fruit and we need to filter the players into a very strong team, so that they earn their place and aren't carrying the team. I think we have a much better model that Chelski, who simply topped up a very decent team, have an owner with no patience (and possibly by Febuary no money!) who is only interested in surrounding himself with yes men. I still feel we need to add to the squad now and Mancini knows who he wants and could already know that they will come I would settle for De Rossi and either Silva, Dede, or Bastos. If we go for a forward I want someone who can put the opponents defenders under pressure, to help Sergio. Lavezzi, or Pedro.
Does anyone else think Alexis Sanchez may leave Barca?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Good post Danamy. Exactly as i see it. The manager has been allowed to mould his own squad, he's been allowed to ship out the players he doesn't get on with it, often at massive losses to the club.

I respect ADUG's stance if it's not to keep throwing money willy nilly, but to be prudent with ins and outs. The club does need to work towards standing on it's own feet, FFPR or not.

 

[VOOMER]

Also playing devils advocate, what if we have a managerial change?

Do we purge and start again?

The players we have are good enough to win this League, they just need to believe it themselves and go out and do it...........

Of the players TH mentions - only Dzeko and Nasri do I disagree with him on. The rest IMO, will go. The only uncertainty is Savic because obviously he's young and has the possibility of improving.

I agree that the players we have at our disposal are good enough to win the league - on paper. However we were good enough - on paper - to win it last season but fell short. The key is having the right balance within all areas of the squad which we simply don't have right now, because otherwise Mancini wouldn't have been going on about it since last summer.

As I keep saying, it's only three players maximum to complete the squad. I don't see what possible reason the owners could have for cutting off all spending at this juncture.

That's my point Billy, it's a complete clean sweep and start again with the new managers ideas/players.
If we have a managerial change does that mean we have to go through the whole process again?
I appreciate each manager has his own ideas but we cant keep on bankrolling all the time, there comes a time when what you have should be good enough.

To repeat myself, i thought at the start of the season this squad is good enough to win the League and that hasn't changed.

Summer is the time to review and look at things...............

Changing the manager would be a huge mistake. Mancini has pulling power, missed out on second place on goal difference and won a trophy. He has had to deal with Tevez, constant negative exposure and comment from the media and a club which was still light years behind the sky 4 in terms of winning mentality, playing and none playing staff. Least we forget, all at a club, in a different country to where he has already had success. We have for the first time in a long time a manager who is young and has both pedigree as a player and a manager, he needs another full season regardless. I feel we need to be strengthening, so does Mancini and his opinion is that of someone with this record as a manager
Serie A: 2006, 2007, 2008;
Coppa Italia: 2001, 2004, 2005, 2006;
FA Cup: 2011

So why are certain individuals making him responsible for someone elses *uck ups?

 

[RACHACE]

No need to spend imo, not sure why some think that signing DDR will ensure that we "romp" the league either. In that particular area we are more than fine.

I am sure that during pre season Mancini and Khaldoon etc would have sat down and had an in depth meeting where the squad and expectations would have been top of the agenda, I am certain that both parties would have left that meeting happy with the outcome and if any compramises were needed they would have done their compramising.

I am certain that if Mancini felt he needed DDR we would have gone out and signed him pre season. It might be that ADUG want to their business pre season and feel that making big signings in the Jan window isn't something they wish to do, however any signings that the manager wants for the forthcoming season will be granted again pre season. This will also give more time to offload any players that Mancini may feel he doesn't need. i.e if he brings in DDR then NDJ may leave or Barry maybe.

This is where the manager earns his crust, he communicates with the owners, builds the squad and agrees with what expectations are set out for the season ahead. Not come Jan decide that say Savic/Onouha isn't good enough to cover for Kompany so we need 15 million to get someone who can.

I believe that we have a squad more than capable of winning the league, if this was the remit pre season then Mancini should look at fielding kids and squad players in the Europa League to help with his remit, not be asking for more cash and then getting all stressed should it be made clear that there are no funds.

 

[johnny crossan]

Hart,Richards,Clichy,Komps,Silva,Yaya,Aguero and Dzeko - all starters imo,that leaves 3 first team spots we can improve.

how about 3 from Barry, Lescott, Zabaleta, de Jong, Milner, Nasri and Balotelli

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I think Danamy is making the totally valid point that, whilst it's very likely, it is not set in stone that Mancini will be the manager next year. If we balls the season up and alternatives present themselves, or even if he falls out with the powers that be and moves on, then it isn't inconcievable we would have a new manager.

These are the facts as I see them. I am not saying we "will" or "should" have a new manager, I'm just agreeing that there's a chance we might, however small. And this has to be part of ADUG's decision making process, especially having been stung with the Hughes dead wood.