Time to put sentiment aside, back-line needs an overhaul.

[dancity19]

the overhaul needs to start with a good engineer

It isn't his fault!

Looking back I believe Mancini may have set us up so defensively because of how vulnerable we are. He dropped bollocks buying Garcia, Kolarov and Savic and we are stuck with two of them. What is worrying that Kolarov actually looks in better form than Clichy right now.

Pellegrini will guide us into the title race, the season is young yet but we must make movements with our back-line. Quite frankly we have some big-time-Charlies who are pilfering from the club when the draw their wages. Richards and Lescott are on their way out and they know it, both are playing for new deals but fail to stake a claim, instead they make clear why they should be sold.

I've said it another thread, and it's worth saying here too. I wanted Mancini out, along with you and many others, and was pretty vocal at times with my criticism.

I am sure Pellegrini will get it right, as at times we have played some phenomenal football, and he has, at least, all our forward players playing to the best of their abilities- something Mancini didn't achieve in his last 18 months.

But, it would be folly, and embarrasing to judge Pellegrini differently than we did Mancini last season. Some of the decisions- such as starting Garcia in the middle rather than Milner, who can actually do a decent job there rather than the wing is something we would have lambasted Mancini for. Added to this, our away results (yes, not necessarily performances, but results) have been appalling. Sometimes, away from home you have to win ugly, and I hope this is something Pellegrini will learn against the grittier teams, who can effectively match us for work-rate, so on days where we miss Fernandinho and Silva, it really really shows.

Again, I was anti Mancini, and am pro Pellegrini thus far, BUT it is unfair to make exuses for him that we simply would not have accepted with Mancini. Especially given Pellegrini has a better squad.

In NO way is this a negative post about Pellegrini- I just think we have to judge them the same way. It's embarrassing when the pro-Manciniers can't wait to jump on a poor result- but equally embarrassing when the other side jump to Pellegrinis defence for things that they would have lambasted Mancini for.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Only two seasons ago we won the league with a back-line of Clichy, Lescott, Kompany and Richards.

Now Lescott and Richards do not justify their wages and Clichy is in worrying form. I personally believe we definitely need to part with our two English players but Clichy is nearing the chopping block. I know Lescott and Richards are big charcacters in the dressing room but both are weaknesses that teams exploit now, be it poor passing under pressure or being half way up the pitch watching your team-mates struggle to defend the space that's exposed. I couldn't care a toss what the papers write about us selling English players, if they are good enough then this wouldn't be an issue but right now. It is a testament to Mancini that he managed to make us solid but now with a more attacking philosophy we are being exposed time and again by players that should not be scoring against us. We have made Frazier Campbell look like Falcao and we have made Bardsley look like Jordi Alba when in reality both are bang average players.

Looking back you can see why Mancini wanted Thiago Silva, we should have paid whatever it took back then. A Kompany and Silva pairing is pretty much the very best combination in world football.

New GK, two CB's and LB needed imo. I think Jan and the summer should be used to sort these areas. Garcia has to go too but we knew that already. Our squad is a good one but the summer of 2012 is haunting us 12 months on and we do need a shake-up, and that starts at the back.

These players were good enough to play in a defence which won the league and conceded very few goals in the process just 19 months ago .

They haven't suddenly become poor players .

It's their attitudes which have become poor.

The same goes for other members of the squad.

To go from scoring 14 goals in a week and playing exceedingly well to serving up that shit yesterday cannot be down to ability. It just can't.

Yesterday and the cup final are more than enough evidence in my eyes that sometimes they just can't be fucked.

 

[kippaxblue76]

Only two seasons ago we won the league with a back-line of Clichy, Lescott, Kompany and Richards.

Now Lescott and Richards do not justify their wages and Clichy is in worrying form. I personally believe we definitely need to part with our two English players but Clichy is nearing the chopping block. I know Lescott and Richards are big charcacters in the dressing room but both are weaknesses that teams exploit now, be it poor passing under pressure or being half way up the pitch watching your team-mates struggle to defend the space that's exposed. I couldn't care a toss what the papers write about us selling English players, if they are good enough then this wouldn't be an issue but right now. It is a testament to Mancini that he managed to make us solid but now with a more attacking philosophy we are being exposed time and again by players that should not be scoring against us. We have made Frazier Campbell look like Falcao and we have made Bardsley look like Jordi Alba when in reality both are bang average players.

Looking back you can see why Mancini wanted Thiago Silva, we should have paid whatever it took back then. A Kompany and Silva pairing is pretty much the very best combination in world football.

New GK, two CB's and LB needed imo. I think Jan and the summer should be used to sort these areas. Garcia has to go too but we knew that already. Our squad is a good one but the summer of 2012 is haunting us 12 months on and we do need a shake-up, and that starts at the back.

These players were good enough to play in a defence which won the league and conceded very few goals in the process just 19 months ago .

They haven't suddenly become poor players .

It's their attitudes which have become poor.

The same goes for other members of the squad.

To go from scoring 14 goals in a week and playing exceedingly well to serving up that shit yesterday cannot be down to ability. It just can't.

Yesterday and the cup final are more than enough evidence in my eyes that sometimes they just can't be fucked.

If you don't have application and desire your fucked. 90 minutes every time they take to the field, its unforgivable if they don't give us that.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

The problem is that if we sell those 2 English players, we need to replace them with 2 English players to meet the quota. So who is good enough? We could sell Clichy too and get Luke Shaw i suppose. Then we'd only need 1 more.

 

[Norman kneejerk]

Must say found yesterday a very difficult watch and found myself really losing it which I don't normally.

Trying to make sense of it all I think I prefer the view that MP should be allowed to shape the team with players that suit the style he wants to play and it is the non performing players not him that should be shipped out when the chance comes, not him.

Don't really like 'barrack room' tactics talks as a rule but as well as the back line which needs an overhaul it does appear to me that the cover in front of the back four is not central enough so teams can go straight through the middle of us and MP is making me nervous on that point.

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

Only two seasons ago we won the league with a back-line of Clichy, Lescott, Kompany and Richards.

Now Lescott and Richards do not justify their wages and Clichy is in worrying form. I personally believe we definitely need to part with our two English players but Clichy is nearing the chopping block. I know Lescott and Richards are big charcacters in the dressing room but both are weaknesses that teams exploit now, be it poor passing under pressure or being half way up the pitch watching your team-mates struggle to defend the space that's exposed. I couldn't care a toss what the papers write about us selling English players, if they are good enough then this wouldn't be an issue but right now. It is a testament to Mancini that he managed to make us solid but now with a more attacking philosophy we are being exposed time and again by players that should not be scoring against us. We have made Frazier Campbell look like Falcao and we have made Bardsley look like Jordi Alba when in reality both are bang average players.

Looking back you can see why Mancini wanted Thiago Silva, we should have paid whatever it took back then. A Kompany and Silva pairing is pretty much the very best combination in world football.

New GK, two CB's and LB needed imo. I think Jan and the summer should be used to sort these areas. Garcia has to go too but we knew that already. Our squad is a good one but the summer of 2012 is haunting us 12 months on and we do need a shake-up, and that starts at the back.

These players were good enough to play in a defence which won the league and conceded very few goals in the process just 19 months ago .

They haven't suddenly become poor players .

It's their attitudes which have become poor.

The same goes for other members of the squad.

To go from scoring 14 goals in a week and playing exceedingly well to serving up that shit yesterday cannot be down to ability. It just can't.

Yesterday and the cup final are more than enough evidence in my eyes that sometimes they just can't be fucked.

I disagree with you, Lescott, for me, has become a poorer player. He has never been great on the ball, but was always solid in defence.
He now is a lot lot slower and is that terrified of the football. I'm sure he's crying when it comes near him.

 

[Anonymous]

But, it would be folly, and embarrasing to judge Pellegrini differently than we did Mancini last season.

No. It's folly to judge Pellegrini the same as Mancini was judged last season because Mancini at that point had been in charge three and a half years and had a team in which he had chosen and signed the overwhelmingly vast majority of them. Pellegrini has signed five players and had a few months in charge.

I agree with Nip's OP to some extent. I actually said when the season started that I felt we needed arguably four new full backs, and certainly one more top drawer centre half. I still believe that.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

But, it would be folly, and embarrasing to judge Pellegrini differently than we did Mancini last season.

No. It's folly to judge Pellegrini the same as Mancini was judged last season because Mancini at that point had been in charge three and a half years and had a team in which he had chosen and signed the overwhelmingly vast majority of them. Pellegrini has signed five players and had a few months in charge.

I agree with Nip's OP to some extent. I actually said when the season started that I felt we needed arguably four new full backs, and certainly one more top drawer centre half. I still believe that.

It was obvious a new ch was required and defensive cover improving - why didn't Ferran, Txiki or Pelle think that?

 

[Anonymous]

But, it would be folly, and embarrasing to judge Pellegrini differently than we did Mancini last season.

No. It's folly to judge Pellegrini the same as Mancini was judged last season because Mancini at that point had been in charge three and a half years and had a team in which he had chosen and signed the overwhelmingly vast majority of them. Pellegrini has signed five players and had a few months in charge.

I agree with Nip's OP to some extent. I actually said when the season started that I felt we needed arguably four new full backs, and certainly one more top drawer centre half. I still believe that.

It was obvious a new ch was required and defensive cover improving - why didn't Ferran, Txiki or Pelle think that?

Mangala and Pepe didn't happen even though they tried, and Marquinhos they obviously didn't rate at the prices which PSG were prepared to pay. Think it's a bit unfair to say they didn't try. I do agree though that in hindsight it should've been a priority from the start of the summer. But then hindsight has the advantage of knowing that Vinny was going to be struck with by injury for long periods.

 

[6one]

I still don't understand why Lescott gets such a good press. The overused quote is that he was part of the title winning partnership. But this overlooks the horrendous mistake that nearly cost us the title. Not withstanding his lack of pace and general poor play in the last 18 months.

The Head and Shoulders advert that Hart did which took around about 1 hour to film in front of a green screen at Carrington one day after training is labelled as a "distraction" that is somehow to blame for his form. (I don't subscribe to that theory).

However, if that is the case for Hart. You'd have to say Lescott's fashion business is more of a distraction. He is spending far longer on that than Hart spent filming the advert.

On the field, it's obvious we need a World Class centre-back not just someone as cover. But we knew that in the summer. I think it's wage management that caused them to delay getting one until next summer. Hopefully they do it in January.