Today's referee

[JoeMercer'sWay]

FWIW I wondered yesterday if Marriner went into the game with a pre conceived idea that certain players of ours are persistent foulers and that affected his decision making. The benefit of the doubt went against us nearly every time.

Then I wondered how refs get these pre conceived ideas (I'm sure they all have them). Do they form them themselves, or do they get scouting reports just like the players do.

Maybe the refs body had just done one about us, if you look at Mattys stats it would be easy to assume that we are a cynical, dirty team. So he has that in his mind at the start of the game and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I don't buy that it was a bad day at the office, if it was you would have seen bad decisions go both ways.

Ok I've gone back and watched the first half and this is what I honestly made of each decision:

MCFC v Chelsea-1st Half

Freekicks given to City(2)

33.32 Freekick given to City for offside against Ramires. Correct decision.

43.45 Freekick awarded to City as Milner misjudges the run of Ba on the byline and stumbles into Ba’s knee, falls over and gets the freekick. Very soft, Ba did nothing wrong and I don’t think it was a freekick.

Freekicks given to Chelsea(14)

09.00 Javi Garcia trips over Chelsea player from behind without touching the ball, right side of Chelsea half of the pitch. Foul.

11.52 Aguero & Ivanovic jump for a header, Aguero jumps behind Ivanovic and may give a slight inadvertent knock on the side of his cheek with his right arm as he goes up for the ball, soft but there was minimal contact.

13 mins: Freekick given for offside against Aguero as he makes attempt to play ball in an offside position 2 yards out from goal after Cech saves Nastasic’s header. Correct call.

14.40 Freekick given when TV not showing live footage, audible handball shout and freekick given. Unable to tell as haven’t seen incident.

18.46 Rodwell slides in on Ramires just inside the Chelsea half, he clearly wins the ball with one foot and then inevitably Ramires trips over Rodwell’s trailing leg as he comes down from jumping away from Rodwell’s original tackle. Good tackle, not a foul imo.

22.35 Rodwell leans over the top of Ramires to win a header in Chelsea’s half, causing the Chelsea player to tumble over. A fair free kick imo.

23.33 Zabaleta runs in behind Hazard and tackles him one footed from behind whilst on his feet and catches Hazard’s right leg as he tries to turn. Hazard stumbles onto his hands and knees and is awarded the freekick. Correct decision.

25.13 Foul given as Hazard goes over after playing the ball and apparently being caught by Zabaleta. Didn’t seem to be any contact on the replay so if there was it was minimal. No freekick imo.

26.20 Yaya Toure pushes Ramires over halfway inside the City half with two hands into the back of the Chelsea player. Clear freekick.

28.03 Long ball played up to Demba Ba, he and Nastasic are tussling, a bit of pulling and a bit of backing in, Ba is backing in but Nastasic has 2 arms around Ba and the combination of the backing in and pulling down causes Ba to go over. Can see why it was given especially as the referee was looking head on and seeing Nastasic with his arms around Ba, clever by Ba to win the freekick.

28.22 Ivanovic plays the ball on the right touchline and Rodwell goes into the back of him with his knee and Ivanovic goes over. No need to make contact by Rodwell and it was a freekick, a needless one at that. Rodwell booked.

33.14 Silva trips Mikel as the Chelsea player goes to run away from the City midfielder. Clear freekick.

38.51 Freekick awarded to Chelsea on advice from the linesman who spots that Kolo Toure has cynically tripped Mata off the ball. Correct decision. Kolo Toure booked.

41.55 Ashley Cole makes a run down the left hand side of City’s penalty area and is fouled by Zabaleta who slides into him after the ball is gone. Correct decision. Zabaleta booked.

Of the 14 freekicks, I’d say 10 were correct, 3 were incorrect and 1 was impossible to call.

Freekicks I felt should have been given to City(1)

05.34 Yaya Toure tripped by Lampard on left edge of area.

Freekicks I felt should have been given to Chelsea(1)

20.55 Silva blocks off Chelsea player to prevent his run upfield and then takes the ball for City. Thought it was a foul on viewing.


Others(7)

11.23 Mikel slides in on Aguero just inside the Chelsea half, pokes the ball away with his foot first but does catch Aguero on the foot slightly. Won the ball pretty fairly so probably not a freekick although Aguero was caught slightly in the follow-through.

18.05 Rodwell fouled by Mikel in central area of Chelsea’s half, Marriner plays advantage and ball is played into Aguero who rounds Cech and runs the ball out for a goal kick. Advantage to City correctly played.

19.29 Aguero pulls Cole out of the way after ball is played, advantage correctly played by Marriner to Chelsea.

19.55 Lampard pulls back on Yaya Toure to stop him getting away, advantage is played and Toure plays ball through to Clichy whose cross is cleared for a City set piece by Cahill. Advantage correctly played.

35.55 Yaya Toure tripped by Ramires in the centre of the park. Advantage played by Marriner as City had the opportunity for the break however they put the ball out of play as Yaya stayed down. Can see why he played advantage and it lasted for the correct amount of time, problem with the laws rather than the decision-making. Ramires booked.

41.00 Mikel tripped by Aguero as Kun plays the ball forward, City get the break and Rodwell’s shot is tipped over. Could have been given either way, benefit of the doubt to City.

41.30 Referee plays advantage to Chelsea as Ba is held back by Nastasic as he tries to win a header from a goal kick, Chelsea play on.

Out of those 25 decisions, I’d say 18 were correct, 6 were wrong and 1 was impossible to call.So to sum up I think he did pretty well though there were a few obvious mistakes which I accepted in my original post on the issue. Not his best half but still got the majority of the calls right.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I didn't have a problem with the yellow cards (Kolo and Zab were certainly deserved, and I got the impression that Rodwell was for backchat not the foul, but he had fouled 2 or 3 times previously), or most of the free kicks given against us.

However, there is something plainly wrong when a team has the ball as much as we do, and it takes 43 minutes to get our first free kick, and when only get 4 in 90 minutes. I can't see how that is just incompetence. Identical fouls were committed by both teams, they got every one in their favour, we got none.




Interesting that Mariner looks quite pissed off on "Tunnel Cam" when he comes down the tunnel at the end of the game, a bit like his team had just lost.

It's something I've noticed over the last few seasons. Very few refs seem to be enjoying what they are doing, and some of them give me the clear impression that, not only do they not like the teams on the pitch, they don't really enjoy the game!

 

[Deleted member 52846]

FWIW I wondered yesterday if Marriner went into the game with a pre conceived idea that certain players of ours are persistent foulers and that affected his decision making. The benefit of the doubt went against us nearly every time.

Then I wondered how refs get these pre conceived ideas (I'm sure they all have them). Do they form them themselves, or do they get scouting reports just like the players do.

Maybe the refs body had just done one about us, if you look at Mattys stats it would be easy to assume that we are a cynical, dirty team. So he has that in his mind at the start of the game and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I don't buy that it was a bad day at the office, if it was you would have seen bad decisions go both ways.

Ok I've gone back and watched the first half and this is what I honestly made of each decision:

MCFC v Chelsea-1st Half

Freekicks given to City(2)

33.32 Freekick given to City for offside against Ramires. Correct decision.

43.45 Freekick awarded to City as Milner misjudges the run of Ba on the byline and stumbles into Ba’s knee, falls over and gets the freekick. Very soft, Ba did nothing wrong and I don’t think it was a freekick.

Freekicks given to Chelsea(14)

09.00 Javi Garcia trips over Chelsea player from behind without touching the ball, right side of Chelsea half of the pitch. Foul.

11.52 Aguero & Ivanovic jump for a header, Aguero jumps behind Ivanovic and may give a slight inadvertent knock on the side of his cheek with his right arm as he goes up for the ball, soft but there was minimal contact.

13 mins: Freekick given for offside against Aguero as he makes attempt to play ball in an offside position 2 yards out from goal after Cech saves Nastasic’s header. Correct call.

14.40 Freekick given when TV not showing live footage, audible handball shout and freekick given. Unable to tell as haven’t seen incident.

18.46 Rodwell slides in on Ramires just inside the Chelsea half, he clearly wins the ball with one foot and then inevitably Ramires trips over Rodwell’s trailing leg as he comes down from jumping away from Rodwell’s original tackle. Good tackle, not a foul imo.

22.35 Rodwell leans over the top of Ramires to win a header in Chelsea’s half, causing the Chelsea player to tumble over. A fair free kick imo.

23.33 Zabaleta runs in behind Hazard and tackles him one footed from behind whilst on his feet and catches Hazard’s right leg as he tries to turn. Hazard stumbles onto his hands and knees and is awarded the freekick. Correct decision.

25.13 Foul given as Hazard goes over after playing the ball and apparently being caught by Zabaleta. Didn’t seem to be any contact on the replay so if there was it was minimal. No freekick imo.

26.20 Yaya Toure pushes Ramires over halfway inside the City half with two hands into the back of the Chelsea player. Clear freekick.

28.03 Long ball played up to Demba Ba, he and Nastasic are tussling, a bit of pulling and a bit of backing in, Ba is backing in but Nastasic has 2 arms around Ba and the combination of the backing in and pulling down causes Ba to go over. Can see why it was given especially as the referee was looking head on and seeing Nastasic with his arms around Ba, clever by Ba to win the freekick.

28.22 Ivanovic plays the ball on the right touchline and Rodwell goes into the back of him with his knee and Ivanovic goes over. No need to make contact by Rodwell and it was a freekick, a needless one at that. Rodwell booked.

33.14 Silva trips Mikel as the Chelsea player goes to run away from the City midfielder. Clear freekick.

38.51 Freekick awarded to Chelsea on advice from the linesman who spots that Kolo Toure has cynically tripped Mata off the ball. Correct decision. Kolo Toure booked.

41.55 Ashley Cole makes a run down the left hand side of City’s penalty area and is fouled by Zabaleta who slides into him after the ball is gone. Correct decision. Zabaleta booked.

Of the 14 freekicks, I’d say 10 were correct, 3 were incorrect and 1 was impossible to call.

Freekicks I felt should have been given to City(1)

05.34 Yaya Toure tripped by Lampard on left edge of area.

Freekicks I felt should have been given to Chelsea(1)

20.55 Silva blocks off Chelsea player to prevent his run upfield and then takes the ball for City. Thought it was a foul on viewing.


Others(7)

11.23 Mikel slides in on Aguero just inside the Chelsea half, pokes the ball away with his foot first but does catch Aguero on the foot slightly. Won the ball pretty fairly so probably not a freekick although Aguero was caught slightly in the follow-through.

18.05 Rodwell fouled by Mikel in central area of Chelsea’s half, Marriner plays advantage and ball is played into Aguero who rounds Cech and runs the ball out for a goal kick. Advantage to City correctly played.

19.29 Aguero pulls Cole out of the way after ball is played, advantage correctly played by Marriner to Chelsea.

19.55 Lampard pulls back on Yaya Toure to stop him getting away, advantage is played and Toure plays ball through to Clichy whose cross is cleared for a City set piece by Cahill. Advantage correctly played.

35.55 Yaya Toure tripped by Ramires in the centre of the park. Advantage played by Marriner as City had the opportunity for the break however they put the ball out of play as Yaya stayed down. Can see why he played advantage and it lasted for the correct amount of time, problem with the laws rather than the decision-making. Ramires booked.

41.00 Mikel tripped by Aguero as Kun plays the ball forward, City get the break and Rodwell’s shot is tipped over. Could have been given either way, benefit of the doubt to City.

41.30 Referee plays advantage to Chelsea as Ba is held back by Nastasic as he tries to win a header from a goal kick, Chelsea play on.

Out of those 25 decisions, I’d say 18 were correct, 6 were wrong and 1 was impossible to call.So to sum up I think he did pretty well though there were a few obvious mistakes which I accepted in my original post on the issue. Not his best half but still got the majority of the calls right.

Excellent post.

 

[Pigeonho]

I didn't have a problem with the yellow cards (Kolo and Zab were certainly deserved, and I got the impression that Rodwell was for backchat not the foul, but he had fouled 2 or 3 times previously), or most of the free kicks given against us.

However, there is something plainly wrong when a team has the ball as much as we do, and it takes 43 minutes to get our first free kick, and when only get 4 in 90 minutes. I can't see how that is just incompetence. Identical fouls were committed by both teams, they got every one in their favour, we got none.




Interesting that Mariner looks quite pissed off on "Tunnel Cam" when he comes down the tunnel at the end of the game, a bit like his team had just lost.

It's something I've noticed over the last few seasons. Very few refs seem to be enjoying what they are doing, and some of them give me the clear impression that, not only do they not like the teams on the pitch, they don't really enjoy the game!

It could literally be anything though that. How many times do you feel and/or look happy in your job? Don't forget that is all it is afterall, another form of employment. They could be pissed off with something in their private life, pissed off at their performance, pissed off at the abuse they've had from players and/or the crowd - pissed off they've now got to go home to their nagging **** of a wife! It could be any number of things.

 

[cibaman]

I didn't have a problem with the yellow cards (Kolo and Zab were certainly deserved, and I got the impression that Rodwell was for backchat not the foul, but he had fouled 2 or 3 times previously), or most of the free kicks given against us.

However, there is something plainly wrong when a team has the ball as much as we do, and it takes 43 minutes to get our first free kick, and when only get 4 in 90 minutes. I can't see how that is just incompetence. Identical fouls were committed by both teams, they got every one in their favour, we got none.




Interesting that Mariner looks quite pissed off on "Tunnel Cam" when he comes down the tunnel at the end of the game, a bit like his team had just lost.

If I were a Chelsea fan I'd have been seriously annoyed at the small number of free kicks they conceded. You dont give away free kicks unless you genuinely challenge for the ball, which they didnt. To a large extent that was good play by City, we outmuscled them, wouldnt let them get near the ball.

At the most I thought there were 2 or 3 times when free kicks should have been given against Chelsea but weren't and 2 or 3 times when free kicks were given against City that were were harsh. That was entirely understandable given the relative efforts made by the two teams to win the ball.

 

[80s Shorts]

I didn't have a problem with the yellow cards (Kolo and Zab were certainly deserved, and I got the impression that Rodwell was for backchat not the foul, but he had fouled 2 or 3 times previously), or most of the free kicks given against us.

However, there is something plainly wrong when a team has the ball as much as we do, and it takes 43 minutes to get our first free kick, and when only get 4 in 90 minutes. I can't see how that is just incompetence. Identical fouls were committed by both teams, they got every one in their favour, we got none.




Interesting that Mariner looks quite pissed off on "Tunnel Cam" when he comes down the tunnel at the end of the game, a bit like his team had just lost.

I noticed that. He looks very annoyed.

 

[Pigeonho]

I didn't have a problem with the yellow cards (Kolo and Zab were certainly deserved, and I got the impression that Rodwell was for backchat not the foul, but he had fouled 2 or 3 times previously), or most of the free kicks given against us.

However, there is something plainly wrong when a team has the ball as much as we do, and it takes 43 minutes to get our first free kick, and when only get 4 in 90 minutes. I can't see how that is just incompetence. Identical fouls were committed by both teams, they got every one in their favour, we got none.




Interesting that Mariner looks quite pissed off on "Tunnel Cam" when he comes down the tunnel at the end of the game, a bit like his team had just lost.

I noticed that. He looks very annoyed.

He doesn't look annoyed here though whilst bumming Kolarov ;-)

Seriously though, Google image his name. He looks like one grumpy bastard.

 

[moomba]

FWIW I wondered yesterday if Marriner went into the game with a pre conceived idea that certain players of ours are persistent foulers and that affected his decision making. The benefit of the doubt went against us nearly every time.

Then I wondered how refs get these pre conceived ideas (I'm sure they all have them). Do they form them themselves, or do they get scouting reports just like the players do.

Maybe the refs body had just done one about us, if you look at Mattys stats it would be easy to assume that we are a cynical, dirty team. So he has that in his mind at the start of the game and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I don't buy that it was a bad day at the office, if it was you would have seen bad decisions go both ways.

Ok I've gone back and watched the first half and this is what I honestly made of each decision:

MCFC v Chelsea-1st Half

Freekicks given to City(2)

33.32 Freekick given to City for offside against Ramires. Correct decision.

43.45 Freekick awarded to City as Milner misjudges the run of Ba on the byline and stumbles into Ba’s knee, falls over and gets the freekick. Very soft, Ba did nothing wrong and I don’t think it was a freekick.

Freekicks given to Chelsea(14)

09.00 Javi Garcia trips over Chelsea player from behind without touching the ball, right side of Chelsea half of the pitch. Foul.

11.52 Aguero & Ivanovic jump for a header, Aguero jumps behind Ivanovic and may give a slight inadvertent knock on the side of his cheek with his right arm as he goes up for the ball, soft but there was minimal contact.

13 mins: Freekick given for offside against Aguero as he makes attempt to play ball in an offside position 2 yards out from goal after Cech saves Nastasic’s header. Correct call.

14.40 Freekick given when TV not showing live footage, audible handball shout and freekick given. Unable to tell as haven’t seen incident.

18.46 Rodwell slides in on Ramires just inside the Chelsea half, he clearly wins the ball with one foot and then inevitably Ramires trips over Rodwell’s trailing leg as he comes down from jumping away from Rodwell’s original tackle. Good tackle, not a foul imo.

22.35 Rodwell leans over the top of Ramires to win a header in Chelsea’s half, causing the Chelsea player to tumble over. A fair free kick imo.

23.33 Zabaleta runs in behind Hazard and tackles him one footed from behind whilst on his feet and catches Hazard’s right leg as he tries to turn. Hazard stumbles onto his hands and knees and is awarded the freekick. Correct decision.

25.13 Foul given as Hazard goes over after playing the ball and apparently being caught by Zabaleta. Didn’t seem to be any contact on the replay so if there was it was minimal. No freekick imo.

26.20 Yaya Toure pushes Ramires over halfway inside the City half with two hands into the back of the Chelsea player. Clear freekick.

28.03 Long ball played up to Demba Ba, he and Nastasic are tussling, a bit of pulling and a bit of backing in, Ba is backing in but Nastasic has 2 arms around Ba and the combination of the backing in and pulling down causes Ba to go over. Can see why it was given especially as the referee was looking head on and seeing Nastasic with his arms around Ba, clever by Ba to win the freekick.

28.22 Ivanovic plays the ball on the right touchline and Rodwell goes into the back of him with his knee and Ivanovic goes over. No need to make contact by Rodwell and it was a freekick, a needless one at that. Rodwell booked.

33.14 Silva trips Mikel as the Chelsea player goes to run away from the City midfielder. Clear freekick.

38.51 Freekick awarded to Chelsea on advice from the linesman who spots that Kolo Toure has cynically tripped Mata off the ball. Correct decision. Kolo Toure booked.

41.55 Ashley Cole makes a run down the left hand side of City’s penalty area and is fouled by Zabaleta who slides into him after the ball is gone. Correct decision. Zabaleta booked.

Of the 14 freekicks, I’d say 10 were correct, 3 were incorrect and 1 was impossible to call.

Freekicks I felt should have been given to City(1)

05.34 Yaya Toure tripped by Lampard on left edge of area.

Freekicks I felt should have been given to Chelsea(1)

20.55 Silva blocks off Chelsea player to prevent his run upfield and then takes the ball for City. Thought it was a foul on viewing.


Others(7)

11.23 Mikel slides in on Aguero just inside the Chelsea half, pokes the ball away with his foot first but does catch Aguero on the foot slightly. Won the ball pretty fairly so probably not a freekick although Aguero was caught slightly in the follow-through.

18.05 Rodwell fouled by Mikel in central area of Chelsea’s half, Marriner plays advantage and ball is played into Aguero who rounds Cech and runs the ball out for a goal kick. Advantage to City correctly played.

19.29 Aguero pulls Cole out of the way after ball is played, advantage correctly played by Marriner to Chelsea.

19.55 Lampard pulls back on Yaya Toure to stop him getting away, advantage is played and Toure plays ball through to Clichy whose cross is cleared for a City set piece by Cahill. Advantage correctly played.

35.55 Yaya Toure tripped by Ramires in the centre of the park. Advantage played by Marriner as City had the opportunity for the break however they put the ball out of play as Yaya stayed down. Can see why he played advantage and it lasted for the correct amount of time, problem with the laws rather than the decision-making. Ramires booked.

41.00 Mikel tripped by Aguero as Kun plays the ball forward, City get the break and Rodwell’s shot is tipped over. Could have been given either way, benefit of the doubt to City.

41.30 Referee plays advantage to Chelsea as Ba is held back by Nastasic as he tries to win a header from a goal kick, Chelsea play on.

Out of those 25 decisions, I’d say 18 were correct, 6 were wrong and 1 was impossible to call.So to sum up I think he did pretty well though there were a few obvious mistakes which I accepted in my original post on the issue. Not his best half but still got the majority of the calls right.

Even if we accept your assessments (I have issue with a few) 75% correct decisions is well below what would be considered a good game by the assessor. Particularly when the majority went to one side.

1 error out of every 4 is poor, and I reckon it was worse than that.

 

[tidyman]

It is not just the referees that wind me up it is the overall inconsistency that we all have to witness week in week out. They should be made accountable for their decisions and should be made to answer reasons decisions were made on key incidents.
They don’t help themselves and prime example was the Red card at the Capital Cup final. Okay letter of the law says it is a red card. You tell me any true football fan watching that game Swansea coasting it 3-0 up about to get a penalty and Bradford has not had a shot even a corner at that point of the game.
Did he really need to send him off he would have gained and all referees would have gained so much more respect if he had just issued a yellow and came out afterwards and said yes it was a red but why ruin all those fans days further.
Just came across as a right fucking wanker.

That post doesn't make any sense. You start off demanding consistency then criticise a referee for not ignoring the laws of the game because he should feel sorry for a side getting beaten.

What if he'd let him off and he'd saved the penalty and Bradford had come back to win the game? Unlikely but not impossible.What if Bradford pull a couple back and the Swansea 'keeper does something indentical? Does he send him off? What if you're a supporter of the team Bradford play next week and the 'keeper has a blinder that becomes a big factor in you been relegated by one point, when he shouldn't have even been playing?

Criticise refs all you want but giving one stick for not making up his own laws as he goes along, depending on how sorry he feels for a team, is a bit silly.

 

[Claytop]

He was awful, no doubt about it.

But it always seem to be in whatever sport and club i follow the referee always seems to have a bad game and be favouring the other team.

Are referees in general just incompetent or do fans just see what they want to see?