Today's shooting in America thread

ChicagoBlue said:
What would that be, and tell us all how you’d accomplish it. PLEASE! Americans are just too stupid to figure it out, but I just know all the super smart Bluemooners in Jolly Old have the answer.

Please share the wisdom and then it’ll happen, right?

It’s like banging my head against the fucking wall!!!
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The accomplishment of gradual staged removal of most weapons in the US would be a reduction in deaths, a reduction in mass killing events. By gradual, I mean over 3-4 generations. By staged, I mean , automatic weapons, semi automatic weapons etc, along with ramping up of background checks, reasons for owning a gun, storage laws, the list of steps is endless…

The US you say is a safer place than the UK, it is somewhat a paradox that the proclaimed safest place is actually the most scared - by that I mean the non sprawling urban areas and their populations.

My list of actions taken to combat school shootings is generally a sliding scale of implementation- because it costs money. The most mass school shootings occur in , generally, semi-affluent white suburban or small town areas, where they have the ability to implement all those measures I’ve listed.
The other end of the scale is the super poor urban school, which can just about pay for armed security , and do the ‘free’ stuff, but nothing else.

So, going back to the ‘scared’, it really is a paradox, the people who have the safest most ‘American ideal’ lives, are the ones scared of so many things that will hardly affect them- school shootings being one - why spend on my list of items, when there are far better uses of money to address the actual issues that cause a person to shoot up a school, ‘protect my property and family’ another - from what, your similar thinking neighbours?, ‘invasion of immigrants on the southern border’ another, as if any of those immigrants are going to be turning up in any rural small US town, govt interference another - despite happily taking govt handouts when times are hard.

I don’t believe you are a Trump, and neither is Idaho iirc, from the places you live in they are ‘American ideals’, but you still use Trump like scaremongering rhetoric as to why gradual(3-4 generations) staged reduction of guns is bad?

A better country comparison would be US & Aus. The rural population, to generalise, is of similar ilk - patriotic, stand on your own feet, wary of foreigners and govt. after the Port Arthur massacre, (like the UK with hungerford), a one-off mass shooting, the govt brought in gun controls laws. As far as I’m aware the rural population of Aus hasn’t been overwhelmed with crime due to the lack of semi-automatics (or even rifles).

You replied in exasperated manner, understandable, there is no, ahem, magic bullet, but the direction of travel appears to be entirely in the wrong direction in the US regarding guns.
 
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madloaf said:
Mass shootings have happened in a bar, cinema, yoga class, elementary school, high school, university campus, baseball practice, church, a concert, a gaming competition, outdoor mall, neighbourhood party, bank, supermarket, library, newsroom, nightclub, synagogue, dance studio....

"It's all right lads, we'll just avoid the places with gun crime, you've just got to know where to go."

The idea that as an individual you do not fear gun crime therefore it isn't a problem is about as myopic as it gets. The point of this thread is not to sneer at America but to surely create debate around the astounding stupidity of allowing citizens to own weapons designed solely to kill. It's fucking bonkers. And the increasing normalisation of it is equally bonkers.

I'm not in the "UK is less violent than US" camp by the way.

I am in the "WTF are you doing to stop children being gunned down in class" camp. And if the answer boils down to fuck all, then you're doing something wrong.
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The proposal was to arm the teachers I believe.....
 
JASR said:
The accomplishment of gradual staged removal of most weapons in the US would be a reduction in deaths, a reduction in mass killing events. By gradual, I mean over 3-4 generations. By staged, I mean , automatic weapons, semi automatic weapons etc, along with ramping up of background checks, reasons for owning a gun, storage laws, the list of steps is endless…

The US you say is a safer place than the UK, it is somewhat a paradox that the proclaimed safest place is actually the most scared - by that I mean the non sprawling urban areas and their populations.

My list of actions taken to combat school shootings is generally a sliding scale of implementation- because it costs money. The most mass school shootings occur in , generally, semi-affluent white suburban or small town areas, where they have the ability to implement all those measures I’ve listed.
The other end of the scale is the super poor urban school, which can just about pay for armed security , and do the ‘free’ stuff, but nothing else.

So, going back to the ‘scared’, it really is a paradox, the people who have the safest most ‘American ideal’ lives, are the ones scared of so many things that will hardly affect them- school shootings being one - why spend on my list of items, when there are far better uses of money to address the actual issues that cause a person to shoot up a school, ‘protect my property and family’ another - from what, your similar thinking neighbours?, ‘invasion of immigrants on the southern border’ another, as if any of those immigrants are going to be turning up in any rural small US town, govt interference another - despite happily taking govt handouts when times are hard.

I don’t believe you are a Trump, and neither is Idaho iirc, from the places you live in they are ‘American ideals’, but you still use Trump like scaremongering rhetoric as to why gradual(3-4 generations) staged reduction of guns is bad?

A better country comparison would be US & Aus. The rural population, to generalise, is of similar ilk - patriotic, stand on your own feet, wary of foreigners and govt. after the Port Arthur massacre, (like the UK with hungerford), a one-off mass shooting, the govt brought in gun controls laws. As far as I’m aware the rural population of Aus hasn’t been overwhelmed with crime due to the lack of semi-automatics (or even rifles).

You replied in exasperated manner, understandable, there is no, ahem, magic bullet, but the direction of travel appears to be entirely in the wrong direction in the US regarding guns.
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While you make statements of “fact” that are clearly not in evidence, I again, with heightened exasperation, point out that it is The Bill of Rights we are talking about.

I’m not sure if you understand what that means, or what it takes to change the Constitution.

In the current climate, and any climate I can foresee, it simply won’t happen. And, lest there be any doubt, it is not the legal ownership of guns that is, in the vast majority of cases, the problem, but the illegal ownership…and use…of the firearm.

The RIGHT to own a firearm is foundational. The irony of attempts to curtail both legal and illegal ownership is that the body seeking to do it is the very body 2A is designed to stop exerting its overarching authority on the individual!

2A is to help the citizen stop tyranny, yet many see the removal of their right to own a firearm AS tyranny…or a good first step in the process of blunting or nullifying their ability to stop such tyranny.

There is a plainly spoken narrative that too many “bad guys” have access to guns. You may have even heard it said in Britain?

But, the saying goes that if you takeaway guns from the good guys, ONLY the bad guys will have guns!

Now, you can take that any way you like, but to a gun owner who abides by all the laws of the land and merely wants to protect himself, his family and his property from others, why on earth would he simply accept that edict from any authority, let alone one that is increasingly unable to protect those things for him?

Lastly, and I know it won’t be the last word on the subject, it is simply naive for outsiders to try to impose their “common sense solutions” (many of which might even sound reasonable to a compliant person willing to give up their personal security to the state) on an intractable problem that is enshrined in the Constitution, without simply acknowledging that now, today, is the LEAST LIKELY time for 2A removal in living memory…and almost no-one is interested in your outsider views!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
While I still carry great pride in being British, even if I’m naturalized in the U.S., with an American family, I do find it disturbing how Brits have accepted the loss of their freedoms (esp speech) and have been socialized to accept the slow creep of negative change foisted upon them.

Murica is no panacea, but I’m free to drive out into the country, buy a plot of land, build a home and live with significant freedoms Brits would only dream about. I know, because I did it!
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When you’re ready to build that house, gimme a shout
 
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