Tories win Copeland b-election.

[urban genie]

No offence intended but the fact that not one of those mentioned meets with your approval serves only to reinforce my opinion that any one of them is the right person for the job, unfortunately though there remains the boil that is Corbyn to lance

no offence taken, and I am not an advocate of jezza, he's a fucking plank, but the labour party has no credible leader in waiting, the ones you mentioned are not going to placate the memberhip and are (bar maybe Jarvis) gonna be seen as usual political establisent types, the one I mentioned are local from their comunities co-op labour chosen and from backgrounds outside of westminster.
I am saying they are too green to leader at present, but the old new labour straight out of uni into a pps role groomed for parliament and then parachuted into a safe seat types are dead wood.

Basically labour if it survives has no chance of winning until it's next generation of MP's are ready to lead.
If a viable leader was out there I would get rid of corbyn tomorrow.

 

[urban genie]

Take off your blue tinted specs mate, take a step back and look at the Tories borrowing record since 2010.
In 2010 Boy George said he would eliminate the deficit by 2015 but he put the economy into reverse, crashed it in 2012 and then had to borrow like a bar steward to rescue it and win the 2015 election. Alistair Darling (remember him) had a much more sensible plan to reduce the deficit which didn't involve putting the patient into extreme cold turkey and then having to pump him full of drugs to prevent his death.
So having mismanaged the economy and failed to eliminate the deficit, the Boy then tried to implement austerity plan number 2 after the 2015 election but got caught out by his own party who stopped him cutting working tax credits. In other words it was the Tory party that scuppered their own chancellor's plans to eliminate the deficit and bring the debt under control.
And now we have Brexit ( the responsibility of the Tories not Labour) which means that the elimination of the deficit is mañana and by 2020 the national debt will be 2tn ( 90% of GDP) at which point the debt problem becomes systemic. And if a bad / no trade deal results from Brexit the situation is even worse.
Are you seeing a pattern here? It is the Tories NOT Labour that are responsible for the failure to eliminate the deficit and the resultant astronomical level of debt. They have achieved this first by mismanagement of the economy (2010 to 2012), then by frustrating their own chancellor (2015) and then by bringing about Brexit(2016) in attempt to resolve their own internal party differences. These failures are treated as mere inconvenient facts by the media whereas Labour's record on borrowing ten years ago and even as far back as the seventies is held as being responsible for all our economic woes.
OK so Blair/Brown in your opinion spent five bob more than they should have in the noughties ( on public services remember them) , so by all means carry on blaming Labour for the current deficit and level of debt and repeat to yourself the old lie that it is only Labour that overborrow. The facts say otherwise.

The Ramsay MacDonald government of 1929-31 coincided with the Wall Street Crash (they left a 12% increase in the debt to GDP ratio), and the Blair-Brown government of 1997-2010 coincided with the 2008 financial sector insolvency crisis (an 11% increase). The other Labour governments all reduced the scale of the national debt, Clement Attlee's 1945-51 government reduced the national debt by 40% of GDP despite having to rebuild the UK economy from the ruins of the Second World War. Harold Wilson's 1964-70 government reduced the national debt by 27% of GDP and even the Wilson-Callaghan government of 1974-79 managed to reduce the debt by 4% of GDP.

The majority of Labour governments have ended up reducing the national debt, and the two that didn't coincided with the biggest global financial crisis of the 20th Century and the biggest global financial crisis so far in the 21st Century, in fact labours economic record is better than any tory government, what the tories are good at is selling the myth that we are better off under them.
They has consistently ruined the economy while reducing our living standards.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Both very pro EU as well, how convenient ;-)

Well I did say "vaguely sensible" ;-)

Seriously I had no idea on either their stances on the EU to be honest. It wasn't on my mind. All Labour politicians are flawed in their thinking in my view, so I don't tend to take much notice of them.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Take off your blue tinted specs mate, take a step back and look at the Tories borrowing record since 2010.
In 2010 Boy George said he would eliminate the deficit by 2015 but he put the economy into reverse, crashed it in 2012 and then had to borrow like a bar steward to rescue it and win the 2015 election. Alistair Darling (remember him) had a much more sensible plan to reduce the deficit which didn't involve putting the patient into extreme cold turkey and then having to pump him full of drugs to prevent his death.
So having mismanaged the economy and failed to eliminate the deficit, the Boy then tried to implement austerity plan number 2 after the 2015 election but got caught out by his own party who stopped him cutting working tax credits. In other words it was the Tory party that scuppered their own chancellor's plans to eliminate the deficit and bring the debt under control.
And now we have Brexit ( the responsibility of the Tories not Labour) which means that the elimination of the deficit is mañana and by 2020 the national debt will be 2tn ( 90% of GDP) at which point the debt problem becomes systemic. And if a bad / no trade deal results from Brexit the situation is even worse.
Are you seeing a pattern here? It is the Tories NOT Labour that are responsible for the failure to eliminate the deficit and the resultant astronomical level of debt. They have achieved this first by mismanagement of the economy (2010 to 2012), then by frustrating their own chancellor (2015) and then by bringing about Brexit(2016) in attempt to resolve their own internal party differences. These failures are treated as mere inconvenient facts by the media whereas Labour's record on borrowing ten years ago and even as far back as the seventies is held as being responsible for all our economic woes.
OK so Blair/Brown in your opinion spent five bob more than they should have in the noughties ( on public services remember them) , so by all means carry on blaming Labour for the current deficit and level of debt and repeat to yourself the old lie that it is only Labour that overborrow. The facts say otherwise.

Tinted specs? That's a laugh coming from you.

Labour cause the deficit (running at 3% BEFORE the financial crash) and it's the Tories fault for not completely eliminating, only partially eliminating it???

And the "solution" according to you is that we should have spent MORE and cut less???

You really could not it up. Only a deluded fool could think such false logic made any sense whatsoever. It's thinking like that that will see Labour in opposition for 20 years. It was exactly this sort of nonsense that kept Red Ed out of office.

 

[blueparrot]

of Nationalists who have one policy only

You are living in Scotland and know that's not true, whether you agree with them or not, you can't be the majority party in Scotland, in the previous term ' break the system with a majority government, and return all but 3 Mps to Westminster with only one policy. Even now in their third term as government they are running at 48 % in the polls. It is partly because of Labour , but also because they have policies in all areas that many agree with.
I would even argue they are the only credible opposition to the Tories in parliament. I'm somebody that voted against independence but see the SNP as the only place for my vote after a lifetime voting Labour.

 

[blueinsa]

You are living in Scotland and know that's not true, whether you agree with them or not, you can't be the majority party in Scotland, in the previous term ' break the system with a majority government, and return all but 3 Mps to Westminster with only one policy. Even now in their third term as government they are running at 48 % in the polls. It is partly because of Labour , but also because they have policies in all areas that many agree with.
I would even argue they are the only credible opposition to the Tories in parliament. I'm somebody that voted against independence but see the SNP as the only place for my vote after a lifetime voting Labour.

What they are are the natural destination for labour voters and an electorate who hate the Tories. If the Monster Raving Looney party where the only option up here they too would have over 50 MP's if it meant a bloody nose for the Tories.

What those SNP voters who dont want independence dont get when voting for them is the fact that it just means the Tories are guaranteed power.

I still say a credible Labour opposition would see voters leaving the SNP in their droves but its for the Labour party to show us all they are electable once more as right now they certainly are not.

 

[blueparrot]

What they are are the natural destination for labour voters and an electorate who hate the Tories. If the Monster Raving Looney party where the only option up here they too would have over 50 MP's if it meant a bloody nose for the Tories.

What those SNP voters who dont want independence dont get when voting for them is the fact that it just means the Tories are guaranteed power.

I still say a credible Labour opposition would see voters leaving the SNP in their droves but its for the Labour party to show us all they are electable once more as right now they certainly are not.

That's all true, and I would love a Labour party to return to, but the 'only one policy' was unfair as they have been in power for 10 years and the sky hasn't fallen in, Of course the Liberals need to share the blame too many of their votes and seats have gone to the SNP too, lets not forget the system was set up ideally for them to hold the balance of power.

 

[CityStu]

Tinted specs? That's a laugh coming from you.

Labour cause the deficit (running at 3% BEFORE the financial crash) and it's the Tories fault for not completely eliminating, only partially eliminating it???

And the "solution" according to you is that we should have spent MORE and cut less???

You really could not it up. Only a deluded fool could think such false logic made any sense whatsoever. It's thinking like that that will see Labour in opposition for 20 years. It was exactly this sort of nonsense that kept Red Ed out of office.

How dare you not stop the car! Wait, what are you doing taking your foot off the accelerator?!

 

[SWP's back]

someone like Sadiq Khan or Chuka Umunna perhaps. i.e. someone vaguely sensible and who doesn't like like a throwback from the '60's /70's.

I like Chuka and he'd be very electable.

 

[blueinsa]

That's all true, and I would love a Labour party to return to, but the 'only one policy' was unfair as they have been in power for 10 years and the sky hasn't fallen in, Of course the Liberals need to share the blame too many of their votes and seats have gone to the SNP too, lets not forget the system was set up ideally for them to hold the balance of power.

Its their only original policy is maybe what i should have said because that aside, we have a basically labour party in power up here.