Tories win Copeland b-election.

[I'm With Stupid]

I remember when David Cameron was considered a completely lightweight, nothing politician, who like the Tory party of the time, was completely unelectable. And then he (just about) got elected. Governments are usually elected on the failure of the standing government rather than how good the alternative is. But perhaps Labour have become a bit complacent and assumed that would always be the case. Their major fuck up was when they chose Ed over David, and they have the unions to thank for that.

 

[smeeagain]

I think the weather also played a large part in the by election result , your average labour voter doesnt have the time/car/inclination/hat and coat even to go out and vote in a storm like thursdays .
Add to the boundary changes and this result would be markedly different say next Thurs !

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I don't like his policies much, but I agree he'd be very electable. I made this point on another thread, but it is imho sad but nevertheless true that what you look like and sound like - rather than just your policies - has some bearing on your popularity and therefore how electable you are. The evidence for this is quite stark really:

Neil Kinnock - pig ugly, buck teeth, strong Welsh accent (i.e. not readily identifying with a very predominantly English electorate) - Fail
John Smith - ditto. Replace the buck teeth with the boz eyes and the Welsh with Scottish - Fail
Tony Blair - no obvious deformities, some might say a bit dashing in his younger years, English sounding - 3 times PM
Gordon Brown - The Full House. Boz eyed, wobble chin, fat, scruffy, Scottish - EPIC FAIL.
Ed Milliband - Pig ugly, speech impediment - Fail.

These sorts of things should not matter. Only policies should matter, but the reality I think is different. How "charismatic" and "attractive" you are, is a significant factor and yes I think Chuka fits the bill of being very electable.

I agree but clearly it doesn't work with the conservative vote. Thatcher and John Major?

Are there any fit women in the Labour Party? I'd be more inclined to vote for one of them than Corbyn.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I agree but clearly it doesn't work with the conservative vote. Thatcher and John Major?

Are there any fit women in the Labour Party? I'd be more inclined to vote for one of them than Corbyn.

Not Labour, but Charlotte Lesley is the hottest MP by a country mile. And brainy as fuck - Balliol College Oxford, no less. Oh, and she drinks pints. Does it get any better than this???

 

[sir baconface]

All the main socialist ideas (affordable housing for all, complete free health and social care, education for all, nationalisation of transport/energy companies) have met with public support, but labour just aren't good at the momment at turning that into votes

An immediate problem here is that free health and social care are principles equally espoused by Tories (despite propaganda to the contrary). The difference is that the party in government faces the issue of funding it whereas those in opposition can indulge in Jackanory bollox. Borrow more, soak the rich, close all tax loopholes, bleed industry, self-finance through growth, blah-fcukity-blah. A piece of piss, yes? No possible downsides, no impracticalities.

Nationalisation? Hardly a vote winner with older voters who remember the shambles of nationalised industries in the 60s and 70s. Shite management, shite unions, shite industrial relations, shite quality, shite customer service, bottomless financial pit. Only younger voters and committed ideologues would want a repeat. Look at the industries that still go on strike: almost invariably public or ex-public sector, monopolistic, self-serving and inward-looking.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Not Labour, but Charlotte Lesley is the hottest MP by a country mile. And brainy as fuck - Balliol College Oxford, no less. Oh, and she drinks pints. Does it get any better than this???

Theresa May?

I googled fittest labour Mp's and it brought up Luciana Berger as the highest on the list at number 4. I can't do pictures so will leave that to you and let the bluemoon electorate decide.

 

[Chippy_boy]

An immediate problem here is that free health and social care are principles equally espoused by Tories (despite propaganda to the contrary). The difference is that the party in government faces the issue of funding it whereas those in opposition can indulge in Jackanory bollox. Borrow more, soak the rich, close all tax loopholes, bleed industry, self-finance through growth, blah-fcukity-blah. A piece of piss, yes? No possible downsides, no impracticalities.

Nationalisation? Hardly a vote winner with older voters who remember the shambles of nationalised industries in the 60s and 70s. Shite management, shite unions, shite industrial relations, shite quality, shite customer service, bottomless financial pit. Only younger voters and committed ideologues would want a repeat. Look at the industries that still go on strike: almost invariably public or ex-public sector, monopolistic, self-serving and inward-looking.

I should stick to debating with you outside of the Referendum thread, since with the above, I agree entirely.

 

[Len Rum]

I think criticism without a suggestion as to how it should have been done better is empty and non-constructive criticism.

You are right the Tories inherited a difficult situation (bit of an understatement there), and yes they didn't get the deficit down as fast as they had hoped. But the criticism from most on the left was *against* the cuts, and if that advice was followed the deficit would not have been reduced at all, so we can discount that criticism as being nonsense. The fact is the Tories took the economy in a terrible state and whether they've achieved the deficit targets or not, they have managed to get the country growing, kept inflation very low, increased employment AND have reduced the deficit quite a lot.

This "failure" doesn't seem too bad actually, and the electorate in 2015 agreed enough to give the Tories a second term.

Probably had to borrow an extra 250 bn as a result of nearly killing the patient and then having to pump steroids in 2012 and then Brexit probably means an extra 200 bn. In other words those two cock ups alone account for more than Labour has ever borrowed.
I wouldn't have done either of those two things.
Those two cock ups plus an extra 700 bn has been used to bring about modest growth.
Low inflation was due to a fall in worldwide commodity prices.

 

[Len Rum]

Not Labour, but Charlotte Lesley is the hottest MP by a country mile. And brainy as fuck - Balliol College Oxford, no less. Oh, and she drinks pints. Does it get any better than this???

She voted Leave.

 

[Helmet Cole]

She voted Leave.

I think I'm in love.