Tories win Copeland b-election.

Len Rum said:
She voted Leave.
Click to expand...
That was then...This is now...

article-0-1E0271B500000578-201_634x522.jpg
 
urban genie said:
Was a shite result for labour and Corbyn is partly to blame, the local CLP wanted someone else to stand, and it was rejected for a more pro corbyn candidate, also the tories played on his own stanve on nuclear, which I somewhat agree with, but in areas which have been seriously hit by things like de-industrialisation you don't say I would lile.to get rid of nuclear without having something to replace it.
Labour in it's current ideological thinking of returning to a socialist agenda is the best option for the country, but the message is lost by a media suspicious, stubborn old goat in charge.

I do find it laughable though that copeland was a footnote on the news before the results and it was all about stoke and labour losing, which as it hasn't happened is now pushed to tge sidelines, letting ukip's failiure off the hook.
Click to expand...

Not true. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-labour-copeland-byelection-gillian-troughton
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I find the state of politics in this country hugely depressing at the present time and the primary source for this is the first past the post system. I've been opposed to it for all my adult life, even when I was happy with and voting for Labour in the noughties and they were securing large majorities, but my opinion has now developed to the point where I view it as the biggest hinderence to effective and representative democracy in this country. How can it be right, notwithstanding their recent decline, that UKIP have a single MP? That is an utterly reprehensible statistic in relation to a party that secured 13% of the votes. Millions of people, who would otherwise do so, fail to bother voting because they live in 'safe' constituencies and they know that voting is an utter waste of time and effort.

Nothing will get done about it, of course. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
Click to expand...
I used to think the same but my view has changed, or at least been moderated, over the years. One reason is that Israel has a PR system and this has led to the extreme elements in the inevitable coalitions holding the whip hand. That's not democratic. Alternatively, there are coalitions in other countries where very little that needs to be done can get done because the parties can't agree on radical changes.

I've done a projection of the 2015 General Election based on the fairly simplistic basis of percentage of the total vote translating directly into the number of seats won. That would be as follows:

Conservatives: 232
Labour: 192
UKIP: 80
LibDem: 50
SNP: 30
Green: 24
DUP/UUP: 7
Sinn Fein: 4
Plaid Cymru: 3
Others: 8

On this basis, Conservative, UKIP and the Unionist NI parties would command 319 seats out o the 631, giving them an overall majority. UKIP therefore would effectively control the government. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing by the way but it's the result of a basic PR system.
 
I view the whole anti-Corbyn stance by the mainstream media in much the same way as I see their anti-City rhetoric. Widespread negativity in the media doesn't change our perception of City - in fact we dig-in and react accordingly (supporters that is, rather than our passive Club officials).

I get the impression that Labour is trying to do the same - ie fuck-off Murdoch et al, you can peddle your lies, misinform your moronic audiences, but you don't tell us who leads our party you bunch of twats.

Sadly this is not likely to be a fight that they will ultimately win.

The polishing, refinement and preparation of Dianne Abbot into a future Party Leader might at least give a little optimism that a brighter future lies ahead.

I hope so because the current free rein position of the Conservatives (as with any Party in their dominant position) is a worrying scenario.
 
1961_vintage said:
I view the whole anti-Corbyn stance by the mainstream media in much the same way as I see their anti-City rhetoric. Widespread negativity in the media doesn't change our perception of City - in fact we dig-in and react accordingly (supporters that is, rather than our passive Club officials).

I get the impression that Labour is trying to do the same - ie fuck-off Murdoch et al, you can peddle your lies, misinform your moronic audiences, but you don't tell us who leads our party you bunch of twats.

Sadly this is not likely to be a fight that they will ultimately win.

The polishing, refinement and preparation of Dianne Abbot into a future Party Leader might at least give a little optimism that a brighter future lies ahead.

I hope so because the current free rein position of the Conservatives (as with any Party in their dominant position) is a worrying scenario.
Click to expand...

Abbot is about the only person less electable than Corbyn.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I used to think the same but my view has changed, or at least been moderated, over the years. One reason is that Israel has a PR system and this has led to the extreme elements in the inevitable coalitions holding the whip hand. That's not democratic. Alternatively, there are coalitions in other countries where very little that needs to be done can get done because the parties can't agree on radical changes.

I've done a projection of the 2015 General Election based on the fairly simplistic basis of percentage of the total vote translating directly into the number of seats won. That would be as follows:

Conservatives: 232
Labour: 192
UKIP: 80
LibDem: 50
SNP: 30
Green: 24
DUP/UUP: 7
Sinn Fein: 4
Plaid Cymru: 3
Others: 8

On this basis, Conservative, UKIP and the Unionist NI parties would command 319 seats out o the 631, giving them an overall majority. UKIP therefore would effectively control the government. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing by the way but it's the result of a basic PR system.
Click to expand...
Your argument is predicated on the basis that voting patterns would be the same. I expect under PR they would differ to a significant, if not overwhelming extent; especially in safe constituencies.

You choose Israel as an example, but I would say Germany was more analogous, where PR works just fine, extremist don't have the whip hand and government always seems to be conducted decisively and efficaciously.

I would still retain FPTP in the 'upper' house btw, in place of the House of Lords (whilst allowing current peers to stand as candidates) whereby each MP was required by law to be unaffiliated to a political party. There are obvious advantages to a local representative in Parliament with a clear mandate to represent the best interests of their constituents, but that manifestly doesn't happen under the present, intellectually dishonest parliamentary system of rigid party politics and the whips. Perhaps that would provide an effective counterweight to militate against the concerns you ventilate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
✖
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.