Tories win Copeland b-election.

[sir baconface]

Like I said though. Generally the level of concern for the labour party from well meaning conservative voters is most touching :-)

Fcuk em.

It's not really that surprising, though. There could be several reasons to express "concern" about a strong opposition:

1. Genuine concern for a healthy democracy.
2. To appear PC.
3. To sound magnanimous and avoid laughing at Labour's plight.
4. Because a strong opposition generally means less Tory in-fighting and vice versa.
5. Being thick - which applies only to Brexiteer Tories of course.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You might have something there, but the complaint with new labour was there was no choice with both being slightly right of center - depending on your perspective.

Speaking as a Tory, I can tell you this "nothing to choose between New Labour and the Tories" line, did not wash with me. Not at all. Tony Blair and co might have been preferable compared to say Michael Foot, but they still spent like mad and wrecked the economy. And yes, they wrecked it BEFORE the crash of 2008. Blair and Brown just took longer to wreck it than most Labour governments. Great.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Speaking as a Tory, I can tell you this "nothing to choose between New Labour and the Tories" line, did not wash with me. Not at all. Tony Blair and co might have been preferable compared to say Michael Foot, but they still spent like mad and wrecked the economy. And yes, they wrecked it BEFORE the crash of 2008. Blair and Brown just took longer to wreck it than most Labour governments. Great.

Tbh I've long given up believing any govt can make or break the economy within reason. Obviously some policies are better and some worse, but I think the economy naturally moves in waves or cycles. Blair was lucky to be riding the crest of an economic wave for his first five years. I don't credit his Tory predecessors with this either.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

I may be mistaken but I've yet to identify one corbynite to express an ounce of acceptance that he may not actually be the right man after all. It is a natural and normal human reaction to defeat or disappointment. We humans are wired to look back on our decisions and question if or what we could have done to change an outcome to a more favourable one. This, at least to me proves only one thing. That the average corbynite just isn't wired right. Delusional is too soft a word.

He vows to lead us to the next GE surrounded by his momentum mates and plenty of empty seats. Hardly the motivating clarion call in the wake of an unacceptable by election result. I used to say at least he seems honourable but I think it's fair to say I can reject that now too because if he was he would walk. I can only pray not just for my party but the wider country, that the damage that will inevitably be inflicted on the labour movement proves not to be terminal.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

I may be mistaken but I've yet to identify one corbynite to express an ounce of acceptance that he may not actually be the right man after all. It is a natural and normal human reaction to defeat or disappointment. We humans are wired to look back on our decisions and question if or what we could have done to change an outcome to a more favourable one. This, at least to me proves only one thing. That the average corbynite just isn't wired right. Delusional is too soft a word.

He vows to lead us to the next GE surrounded by his momentum mates and plenty of empty seats. Hardly the motivating clarion call in the wake of an unacceptable by election result. I used to say at least he seems honourable but I think it's fair to say I can reject that now too because if he was he would walk. I can only pray not just for my party but the wider country, that the damage that will inevitably be inflicted on the labour movement proves not to be terminal.

long way to go till 2020, a lot thought 2015 couldn't happen like it did. I think Corbyn's best policy is to stay fairly quiet for the next couple of years. If I were him, I would be focusing on how to integrate the core issues of the working class into his stance, and look closely at how Brexit negotiations go and position himself for 2020 as "I can deliver a better Brexit" or whatever will entail by that point.

 

[Helmet Cole]

The labour movement was already terminally ill. Corbyn is a symptom of that, not the disease. For proof look at what was up against him in both his leadership contests. The younger blairite end of the party are media/spin savy, but with almost no thoughts of their own lest they be challenged to argue their point.

 

[sir baconface]

Tbh I've long given up believing any govt can make or break the economy within reason. Obviously some policies are better and some worse, but I think the economy naturally moves in waves or cycles. Blair was lucky to be riding the crest of an economic wave for his first five years. I don't credit his Tory predecessors with this either.

That's the truth of the matter. Any given government can exaggerate the peak or trough through its own direct or indirect actions. It doesn't CREATE boom or bust. They are largely due to cycles, as you say, and global ones at that.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

long way to go till 2020, a lot thought 2015 couldn't happen like it did. I think Corbyn's best policy is to stay fairly quiet for the next couple of years. If I were him, I would be focusing on how to integrate the core issues of the working class into his stance, and look closely at how Brexit negotiations go and position himself for 2020 as "I can deliver a better Brexit" or whatever will entail by that point.

Pretty sure we will already have been obliged to pull the art50 trigger by then. I can't see the brexit issue troubling the manifesto printers an awful lot. My point is, if jezza was in charge of an ailing company or football team or whatever who had fallen on tough times, and delivered nothing but continued or worsening decline what would happen? Politics is as cut throat as football, perhaps business less so providing the CEO or md can account for the downturn before an expected improvement in fortunes. No right in the head labour supporter can justifiably excuse results like Copeland or suggest such results are to be expected whilst we wait for 'our message to be heard'

 

[sir baconface]

You won't find much love from me towards Corbyn or his party. (And I'm sure they can live without it.) Nevertheless, it's a perfectly tenable position for the Corbynistas to fight on under his banner when he has just been elected, not once but twice.

It's reminiscent of our friends on the Brexit thread moaning that people made the wrong decision, or were asked the wrong question, or that the system is bolloxed.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

The labour movement was already terminally ill. Corbyn is a symptom of that, not the disease. For proof look at what was up against him in both his leadership contests. The younger blairite end of the party are media/spin savy, but with almost no thoughts of their own lest they be challenged to argue their point.

I disagree, kinnock was for me the architect, and smith the contractor who painstakingly undid all the damage the far left inflicted and made us electable, as I said earlier smith imo (obviously) would have won the next election. Blair simply refined it further to huge success before passing the reins to a man who agreement or not should never even have had a spare for no10. If the correct brother had won the following leadership election, I believe we would have a very different parliament now, instead, it was hijacked, that time by the paymasters (unions) but sadly for the party hijacking elections seems to be modus operandi these days.