Truck Runs into Crowd in Nice

[bluemoon32]

Some really cannot see the wood for the trees, stop making excuses for these terrorists, you do gooders are the reason we are in the position we are in. Face the reality of the situation these terrorist are being encouraged to carry out these atrocious acts,

Nope, going to war and stirring up a hornets nest in the Middle East is the reason we are in this position. We should have left well alone, the whole area was always a powder keg waiting to go off and we helped light the fuse.

 

[steviemc]

Yes they can - however, this bloke had guns and grenades. This is what make me think he is a terrorist rather than someone who has just had a breakdown

Perhaps the idea of having these types of weapons in the vehicle is a way of showing martyrdom? I guess most terrorists know there's very little chance that they'll survive, therefore it ensures that the incident could never been be reported as a tragedy involving a lorry who's driver simply lost control. There are other clues that could be left in a vehicle, although whatever remains in the aftermath would probably need to be quite hardy to withstand a fair bit of damage/return fire.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Some really cannot see the wood for the trees, stop making excuses for these terrorists, you do gooders are the reason we are in the position we are in. Face the reality of the situation these terrorist are being encouraged to carry out these atrocious acts,

Strange post that.
I don't think anybody's denied that people are being encouraged to carry out these acts. Some of us are arguing that the individuals who carry out the act are often radicalised that's all.

Any 'do gooders' are certainly NOT the reason we're in this position. Those reasons are way more complex than such a simple generalisation.
There's only one personal ultimately responsible for acts of terrorism, and that's the terrorist himself. Then there are a number of aiders and abetters who've encouraged him. I simply cannot see how any 'do gooder' (whoever they may be) is to blame.

 

[Chipmeister]

Nope, going to war and stirring up a hornets nest in the Middle East is the reason we are in this position. We should have left well alone, the whole area was always a powder keg waiting to go off and we helped light the fuse.

Accept your point, maybe should have left them alone,but they were killing each other day after day. The leader of the do gooders got all his allies in place and then fcuked it all up.

 

[FanchesterCity]

When it comes to our activities in other regions, we're damned if we do, damned if we don't.
We've tried to intervene on the neighbour beating up his wife, and now that neighbour wants to hurt us too.
Of course, we could just have turned a blind eye and stayed safe. But is that the right thing to do?
Then we come to the issue of our interventions being effective or not. In some cases we may have made matters worse - and that's something we need to be mindful of whenever we intervene.

In principle, if someone's being oppressed, we shouldn't sit back and let it happen. The problem is it's hard to know who is really being oppressed, by whom, and how to reduce the conflict rather than escalate it.

And, to top it all off. Some haters are just going to hate, and some extremists simply loathe the way we live our lives and want to change that - regardless of which countries we've invaded / intervened in. We have no intention of changing our lifestyles at their behest do we?

 

[EL APACHE TEVEZ]

It makes me fucking laugh,you've got satellites that can pick an ant up having a shit in the desert,but some how you can't pick up 100's of isis marching into citys in Iraq and Syria.

 

[SWP's back]

The logic conclusion to your argument is we all convert to Islam.

No it isn't.

 

[Machiavelli]

It makes me fucking laugh,you've got satellites that can pick an ant up having a shit in the desert,but some how you can't pick up 100's of isis marching into citys in Iraq and Syria.

Weird isn't it?

 

[FanchesterCity]

In my opinion your coming at it the wrong way there. I think the evidence clearly indicates our "civilised" countries didn't go in there to help the oppressed but for our own vested interests. Otherwise, if what your saying is indeed true, why are we picking and choosing which oppressed peoples to help? What about the Kurds? The Irish for so long? The Native Americans? The Ukrainians (in Russia's case)? etc. etc. There are many oppressed peoples around the world western governments don't give a toss about.

On another point: we know there is a large influence on U.S. government from weaponry manufacturers in their own country. You have to ask the question... how would these companies survive with no war in the world? They certainly wouldn't be generating healthy profits.

I deliberately avoided getting into the debate about who decides who is oppressed and who isn't, and any ulterior motives beyond trying to do the right thing. You're still damned if you do and damned if you don't. Even if you DO try to intervene for genuine good reasons, someone will still claim there's a bigger political and ulterior motive behind it, and whoever you believe to be the 'oppressor' is going to interpret your actions as an affront to them.

Deciding who is, and who isn't oppressed is another debate I think. I'm taking the best (nicest) case scenario that a country decides to intervene in a neighbour beating his wife, and as a result he's caught in the crossfire and quite possibly made matters worse. Yet, if they stood back and let it happen, they're knackered too. If you're going in to stop the neighbour beating his wife because you're also having a affair with her, then it's even more bloody complicated! and as you say, why intervene in some, but not other cases? (but does that mean you shouldn't intervene in any?).

Personally I'm not convinced every idiot who carries out these atrocious acts is a political or economic scholar, I suspect plenty are just angry young men who now have a badge to wear and for the final months of their life they feel incredibly powerful and purposeful, probably encouraged by others in the process.

 

[FanchesterCity]

It makes me fucking laugh,you've got satellites that can pick an ant up having a shit in the desert,but some how you can't pick up 100's of isis marching into citys in Iraq and Syria.

The technology just really isn't that amazing. They can monitor specific targets with a lot of effort and at certain times, and trying to track one ant amongst thousands is nigh on impossible even when you can see all 1000 of them!

They simply can't monitor all of Syria in detail in one go.

Even if you can clearly see vehicles / movement moving into a city, what can you do about it? not much in most cases, not even the USA has the manpower.