Txiki Begiristain...

[NipHolmes]

If it is the case that giving someone squillions = success, then why isn't Leslie still in charge? Oh, yeah, that's right, cos it's not that fucking easy!

Blackburn, Chelsea, Psg, Real Madrid.

Barca are/were the best outfit many have seen yet Real surpassed them with a record points haul in La Liga and conqured a barrier people never thought would happen. Without huge investment over last few years it wouldn't have happened and Barca would have La Liga in bag again.

Chelsea last season finished 6th and won CL (barely), they spent big in summer and are all teh better for it as you can see. Without money they'd have had to rely on resigning older players else they wouldn't have been able to buy these new young talents. Money spent again.

Leslie wasn't in charge for long because he didn't have a plan. You must devise a system or 2 and buy players that fit a system where Leslie has a scattergun approach and not sense of system implementation. That's why he was sacked and that's why he might get sacked again at QPR, Steve Bruce did the same at Sunderland only recently, overhauled his team so much he couldn't gel in time and paid price. Ipswich is the same too. Buying players is fine but only if required and likely to fit a system.

I was the loudest on these boards in Summer about us needing a World Class CM. Got told I knew fuck all etc, for my money I'd sell Mario and get Moutinho. I'd do that in Jan too. We don't need 4 strikers but we do need a World Class player to A) Compliment Yaya and B) Fill in if Yaya isn't fit/injured/ACON.

We need a final push for players imo, we need a wideman, top CB and CM and that's us done unless we sell either Dzeko or Tevez in which I'd replace with Falcoa. After that I'd spend on natural staff turnover.

Going on a tangent here abit but money is most certainly a vital part of football, just like a focused and concise plan is too.

 

[Matt the Giant]

Sorry if already covered, but does Soriano and now Txiki Begiristain in any way suggests the paving is being laid for a Pep arrival, no matter the results Mancini hands us?

Is it known how Pep felt/feel for the Spanish executive duo? Him and Txiki were pretty tight right?

Its been covered to death mate,the link is blindingly obvious,to think otherwise would be very naive,ignorant and shortsighted.

Sorry mate, just got home from a mini-vacation and haven't had the time to read up. Will do. This thread alone?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm no doubt going to get slated for suggesting that the money vs managerial ability equation can be worked out but some academics claim they can and it opened by eyes. I won't dare post the link again but it's conclusions:

1. You've no chance without massive investment these days. No Manager can do without it however good.

Although this on the face of it is without doubt a truism, what constitutes massive investment is largely subjective. Also it depends upon what "you've no chance" to achieve. Arsenal in the last 7 years have consistently sold their best players and not invested heavily in the squad - and yet they have finished consistently in the top four and consistently gotten themselves into the CL knock out stages. I would suggest the money invested in that team between 2000 - 2005 is largely irrelevant because those players are gone and the current crop are by no means what you'd call players brought in for massive investment. So yes, they haven't won anything, but they've spent far less than Spurs for example in the last 7 years, and yet are still consistently finishing above them.

2. Mancini (even given point 1) is the third best Premiership Manager of all-time after Wenger and Bacon.

I've seen you post this before and I think it's only fair that you give us an indication of how this is calculated when Mancini has only been in the league two and half seasons and only managed a City team which has had masses of money invested into the playing squad both before and after the manager's arrival.

My own take on this statistical analysis is that it will without doubt be pretty facile. A bit like suggesting Balotelli is one of the all time great premiership centre forwards because his goals to minutes ratio is up there with the likes of Henry.

But the person, I believe, would most most like to see City lose Mancini....Alex ferguson.

That would depend largely upon who replaced him. Ferguson isn't stupid enough to think that a successor to Mancini would be someone with less capabilities than him.

On a side note and just from a personal point of view I'll never forget him standing up to Ferguson in the Derby. About time someone did.

On this I totally agree.

 

[Cobwebcat]

I'm no doubt going to get slated for suggesting that the money vs managerial ability equation can be worked out but some academics claim they can and it opened by eyes. I won't dare post the link again but it's conclusions:

1. You've no chance without massive investment these days. No Manager can do without it however good.

Although this on the face of it is without doubt a truism, what constitutes massive investment is largely subjective. Also it depends upon what "you've no chance" to achieve. Arsenal in the last 7 years have consistently sold their best players and not invested heavily in the squad - and yet they have finished consistently in the top four and consistently gotten themselves into the CL knock out stages. I would suggest the money invested in that team between 2000 - 2005 is largely irrelevant because those players are gone and the current crop are by no means what you'd call players brought in for massive investment. So yes, they haven't won anything, but they've spent far less than Spurs for example in the last 7 years, and yet are still consistently finishing above them.

2. Mancini (even given point 1) is the third best Premiership Manager of all-time after Wenger and Bacon.

I've seen you post this before and I think it's only fair that you give us an indication of how this is calculated when Mancini has only been in the league two and half seasons and only managed a City team which has had masses of money invested into the playing squad both before and after the manager's arrival.

My own take on this statistical analysis is that it will without doubt be pretty facile. A bit like suggesting Balotelli is one of the all time great premiership centre forwards because his goals to minutes ratio is up there with the likes of Henry.

But the person, I believe, would most most like to see City lose Mancini....Alex ferguson.

That would depend largely upon who replaced him. Ferguson isn't stupid enough to think that a successor to Mancini would be someone with less capabilities than him.

On a side note and just from a personal point of view I'll never forget him standing up to Ferguson in the Derby. About time someone did.

On this I totally agree.

I'll PM you

 

[Anonymous]

If it is the case that giving someone squillions = success, then why isn't Leslie still in charge? Oh, yeah, that's right, cos it's not that fucking easy!

Blackburn, Chelsea, Psg, Real Madrid.

Barca are/were the best outfit many have seen yet Real surpassed them with a record points haul in La Liga and conqured a barrier people never thought would happen. Without huge investment over last few years it wouldn't have happened and Barca would have La Liga in bag again.

Chelsea last season finished 6th and won CL (barely), they spent big in summer and are all teh better for it as you can see. Without money they'd have had to rely on resigning older players else they wouldn't have been able to buy these new young talents. Money spent again.

Leslie wasn't in charge for long because he didn't have a plan. You must devise a system or 2 and buy players that fit a system where Leslie has a scattergun approach and not sense of system implementation. That's why he was sacked and that's why he might get sacked again at QPR, Steve Bruce did the same at Sunderland only recently, overhauled his team so much he couldn't gel in time and paid price. Ipswich is the same too. Buying players is fine but only if required and likely to fit a system.

I was the loudest on these boards in Summer about us needing a World Class CM. Got told I knew fuck all etc, for my money I'd sell Mario and get Moutinho. I'd do that in Jan too. We don't need 4 strikers but we do need a World Class player to A) Compliment Yaya and B) Fill in if Yaya isn't fit/injured/ACON.

We need a final push for players imo, we need a wideman, top CB and CM and that's us done unless we sell either Dzeko or Tevez in which I'd replace with Falcoa. After that I'd spend on natural staff turnover.

Going on a tangent here abit but money is most certainly a vital part of football, just like a focused and concise plan is too.

My post was a response to those saying anyone with enough money could bring us success, in fact "TevezCity" believes he/she could do it him/herself (and thank the Lord that will never happen.)

I was pointing out, it's not quite that easy. Of course the money helps, but it takes just a little bit more than just money.

I guess some posters just balk at giving Mancini any form of credit. Sad really.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll PM you

Nice one...

 

[taconinja]

Mancini is god in my eyes as he delivered something that I thought I would never see in my lifetime. Until told otherwise,he is the best man for the job and yes he is a genius to me and my little lad.

To be honest, if you didn't foresee us winning a league and an FA Cup after Sheikh Mansour's investment in the club then I'd suggest you need to improve your foresight... :)

And this is what gets my goat. Lots of clubs spend a lot of money and never get a sniff of a title or a cup. You really devalue the accomplishments of the club by this and give ammunition to those trying to cripple the club financially.

 

[moomba]

The thing I don't like is this idea that any failures are wholly and solely down to the manager, and any successes are wholly and solely down to money.

Can't win really.

 

[Anonymous]

And this is what gets my goat. Lots of clubs spend a lot of money and never get a sniff of a title or a cup. You really devalue the accomplishments of the club by this and give ammunition to those trying to cripple the club financially.

Sorry mate, but I just don't agree. Which are these mythical clubs who have spent shit loads of money but never get a sniff of a title ?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

And this is what gets my goat. Lots of clubs spend a lot of money and never get a sniff of a title or a cup. You really devalue the accomplishments of the club by this and give ammunition to those trying to cripple the club financially.

Sorry mate, but I just don't agree. Which are these mythical clubs who have spent shit loads of money but never get a sniff of a title ?

Liverpool?