When you think about it, if we did find an ‘off world‘ craft/vehicle here, it’s likely to have crashed unintentionally.
Secondly, it always makes me laugh that we think a biological creature would need to be driving it.
If they managed to get here, it’s highly unlikely it would be manned.
Surely common sense makes you think a robot or some AI based thing would be controlling it. All Sci Fi tends to have that planets inhabitants in a ship etc but in my view that would never happen.
So, in conclusion, my view is that our first contact would be a crashed vehicle unmanned. We would then have to reverse engineer it and I think that could well be happening now.
Thank goodness no one's decided to make the obvious Buster Gonad joke about aliens being a load of bollocks to which the correct answer is extra testicle!
I'll get my gold cape and flying goggles on the way out?!?
It is a fascinating point that aliens are probably not humanoid but could have evolved in all kinds of environments that we can't imagine.
Going back to the OP, the vast majority of UFOs are explicable as weather phenomena, birds, planes etc. That's maybe 90% of sightings, maybe more than that. Which does mean that there must be a small percentage that would appear to be actual UFO's....
Like I say most encounters would have a logical explanation. I think media / internet coverage has also encouraged more people to speak out.
It also leads to more idiots being taken seriously such as, to name two, a woman who saw a character wearing "Nike trainers" in a 17/18th portrait at the National Gallery and someone else who saw a "laptop" in a similarly aged painting!
The "Nike trainers" appeared to be square toed boots bound up with ribbons tied in a bow. Equally the "laptop" was a box or case for a necklace!
It is interesting that people sometimes want to ascribe human achievement to extra terrestrial/ supernatural/divine inspiration or influence.
Hernan Cortez who conquered the Mexica or Aztecs attributed his success to God. Equally it was due to the superior weapons os the Spanish, their horses and a combination of factors that meant the Aztecs' client states flocked to Cortez' banner.
In the 1960s/70s Erich von Danniken popularized theories that our technology was given to our ancestors by aliens, one of his many books being Was God an Astronaut?!
Going back to the Axtecs, their capital city Technochtitlan was built on an island in the middle of a lagoon which the partially drained and used to irritate the surrounding land. Cortez estimated there were maybe 200 000 people living there, making it larger than many European capitals in 1520.
The Maya in southern Mexico/Guatemala and the Inca of Peru had similar empires within relatively speaking a close geographic area too.
Did aliens help them, or the Egyptians or the Ancient Cambodians or the people of the Indus valley? No more I think than ET being responsible for Carthage or Rome.
If it does turn out that we don't encounter alien lifeforms, at least I can watch Kirk snogging any alien strumpet left, right and centre and think go Tomcat ! ;-)))
This post reminded me of this photo that was going round ages ago of a modern looking guy in a photo from 1940
Sometimes you have to apply Occam’s razor to these situations. There are probably people around today who look like lunatics to us but will look contemporary to the people of 2100. Probably a fair few on this forum, I imagine :) I tell my wife all the time, I haven’t got a bad sense of style I’m just ahead of my time.
Sometimes you have to apply Occam’s razor to these situations. There are probably people around today who look like lunatics to us but will look contemporary to the people of 2100. Probably a fair few on this forum, I imagine :) I tell my wife all the time, I haven’t got a bad sense of style I’m just ahead of my time.
Just to be a little bit pedantic - we can't come up with laws of physics, they are true by definition and are discovered. A scientific law is a statement of observed phenomena. They aren't an attempt to explain the phenomena. What I think you mean (without wanting to presume) is that a lot of these laws start out appearing quite simple in easily observed nature, but our interpretation breaks down in certain extreme cases and so we can hone our understanding of laws over time.
What some physicists do is look for these extreme edge cases where our knowledge of laws no longer hold and in doing so they sometimes improve our understanding of the laws so that they can describe those edge cases.
In terms of travelling long distances, the laws of physics as you rightly say are prohibitive. You simply can't travel at lightspeed conventionally because the faster you go the more your relativistic mass increases and the amount of energy you need to go faster goes up exponentially. There's also time dilation, it's all very Flight of the Navigator.
An advanced civilisation could know much more about these extremes where the laws of physics as we know them break down. And so really there is no way of knowing how quickly they might be able to traverse space. For example, with enough mass, you can make space-time do some really funky stuff. Wormholes are one well-known theoretical example of this.
I have a passing interest in UFO stuff, just because I'm living for the day something interesting might happen to my life. I don't really believe in anything I've seen relating to UFOs/UAPs, including the OP, because none of it has ever met my standard of evidence, however it is a great source of entertainment for me. I stumbled upon this thread a few days ago about a "supposed whistleblower" on 4chan who is dying of cancer and so has spilled the beans online. It seems like obvious bollocks but I do commend him on how he has at least created an air of plausability.
That’s the thing I’m an avid watcher of Ancient Aliens on TV purely out of interest that they may have uncovered some real evidence that measures up to my critical analysis all the time I’m thinking “that can’t be right that doesn’t make sense“ even with a very basic knowledge of physics that I don’t have
In contrast I listen to science and physics programs so pick up little bits of information on how the Universe works even so I have a deep admiration for anyone who does study these things and can handle the math that goes with it “genius minds” they are the real heroes working on long streams of numbers and understanding what it means. I’m a two plus two equals six sort of brain long past grasping the fundamentals please how do I open the link with three symbols which one ?
Sometimes you have to apply Occam’s razor to these situations. There are probably people around today who look like lunatics to us but will look contemporary to the people of 2100. Probably a fair few on this forum, I imagine :) I tell my wife all the time, I haven’t got a bad sense of style I’m just ahead of my time.
One theory I heard was that, when the volcano on Santorini exploded, around 65 miles away, the resultant tsunami (apparently 150 metres high) submerged Knossos, then the capital of the Minoan civilisation, as it was only 5 miles from the coast.
I think it's a load of Minotaur, personally.
A Stanford professor who has researched unidentified aerial phenomena for the US government says he believes extraterrestrial intelligence has not only visited earth but "it's been here a long time and it's still here".
Dr Garry Nolan also claimed that whistleblowers who have worked on "reverse-engineering downed craft" had recently given classified testimony to Congress, creating a "hornet's nest in Washington".
Dr Nolan, a Professor of Pathology at Stanford University School of Medicine who has published more than 300 research articles and holds 40 US patents, made the bombshell comments during a talk at the Salt iConnections conference in New York on Thursday titled "The Pentagon, Extraterrestrial Intelligence and Crashed UFOs".
——
During the session, moderator Alex Klokus, founder and managing partner of Salt Fund, asked Dr Nolan, "Do you believe that extraterrestrial intelligence has visited planet earth?"
"I think you can go a step further — it hasn't just visited, it's been here a long time and it's still here," Dr Nolan replied.
——
Asked by Mr Klokus what the "most compelling evidence" was for his claim, Dr Nolan said "you just need to look at what your government is doing right now about it".
"Just go and look at the number of politicians on both sides of the aisle who have come together and signed off on this statement," he said.
"What are they basing their opinions on? They're basing their opinions on the dozens of individuals who in one manner or another have come forward and talked to them in classified settings."
Dr Nolan said in addition he had "personal experience" with "people who, frankly, I know have worked or are working on the reverse-engineering programs".
——
Note - For those unaware, the US congress has recently created a new vehicle for UAP/UFO whistleblowers to come forward and has signed into law that these whistleblowers cannot be prosecuted. Various people are believed to have come forward and delivered private testimonies.
One theory I heard was that, when the volcano on Santorini exploded, around 65 miles away, the resultant tsunami (apparently 150 metres high) submerged Knossos, then the capital of the Minoan civilisation, as it was only 5 miles from the coast.
I think it's a load of Minotaur, personally.
it's the more accepted theory that this is how the Minoan civilisation met it's end. I don't think it's nessecarily proven, then again by the same way that the guy you reply to put it there were many civilisations trough history that kinda vanished inexplicably, especially when it relates to really old civilisations or those who don't have a written record and are hardly described by written records. But in pretty much any of these cases there is some main theory as to why, typically involving some enviromental catastrophe.
Yes, they have an extraterrestrial object, and here it is:
Collected from the Hadley Rille by the crew of Apollo 15. And that, my friends, is far more impressive to me as an achievement than all of the pointless speculation about little green men visiting in secret for purposes unknown.
Another thought for you - our planet is unique in many ways but one of them is the presence of such a large moon. The moon, of course, produces significant tides and this has arguably turbocharged evolution on this planet by allowing the move from water to land in a relatively short period of time. So, maybe we will not be the only intelligent life in the galaxy, but what if we are the first? The rock above being part of our first baby steps that leads to us being the ones visiting other worlds (and kidnapping it's inhabitants in the dead of night to subject them to probes...). If that is the case, then we have a duty to ensure we don't f*ck this planet up before we can fulfill our destiny amongst the stars.
Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.”
Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”
Mr. Davis said he also gave classified briefings on retrievals of unexplained objects to staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Oct. 21, 2019, and to staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee two days later.
I see the 'hipster' (another fragment of the media's imagination) Jeremy Corbell has just posted something on this instagram channel from a source none other than the Daily Mail (triangle lights floating above a mountain etc).
He's probably carving out a decent career in all this.
This site below pretty much debunks all those UFO tales (from tic tacs to those 1950's 'flying saucers') led by Mick West.
The attention to detail is mind blowing but many of the contibuters all come from a '\UFO fanatic' background so don't mock those with obsessions with these things.
All very polite and thorough.
I don't have tome to peruse it much but it's super interesting (in fact, just looking now and the top article is the one mentioned above posted by Jezza Corbell):
I loved reading about stuff like this as a kid....then watched 3rd encounters and the rest. I think it's absolutely healthy to dream about things beyond our our neighbourhood, but the realities are far different.
Absolutely agree on an advanced civilisation (hundreds of thousands of years, if not millions of years of evolution on us) being so 'alien' we'd struggle to conceptualise. And that any visitations would be either unmanned or perhaps more likely, miniaturised, AI led, quantum scale technology (we're still looking at getting quantum computing off the ground). The 'Ant Man' shrinking is interesting.
Always blows my mind when talking about atoms being the middle ground in terms of measurability: if one were to blow an atom to the size of the observable universe and something at the lowest point on the Planck scale would be the size of a tree in comparison.
I've read a couple of books on quantum physics but I know absolutely nothing about it. It's incredible deep and complex.
Must be myriad reasons we'd find it difficult to find a porridge planet. Never mind the distance, but bring in different gravitational forces and an immune system unable to deal with new challenges, I feel we're a while off colonising.
Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”
Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”
But in what context is that quote? It's meaningless on it's own. As I say, it's not alien and fantasy shit that the investigations were about, it's about UAPs entering US airspace and if their defence is so easily bypassed. You can kid yourself otherwise, but alien life is not in the running when it comes to UAPs.
But in what context is that quote? It's meaningless on it's own. As I say, it's not alien and fantasy shit that the investigations were about, it's about UAPs entering US airspace and if their defence is so easily bypassed. You can kid yourself otherwise, but alien life is not in the running when it comes to UAPs.
Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.”
Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”
Mr. Davis said he also gave classified briefings on retrievals of unexplained objects to staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Oct. 21, 2019, and to staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee two days later.
Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.”
Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”
Mr. Davis said he also gave classified briefings on retrievals of unexplained objects to staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Oct. 21, 2019, and to staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee two days later.
A few things to critically point out
1) What is the "pentagon U.F.O program"?, i know about AARO but i don't know of any institution going by that name, i'm not even sure if it's really asociated with the Pentagon or just some cleverly named private brand.
2) in what capacity as subcontracter and consultant? If i act as taxi service for them and give them advice on whats the best coffee brand to quire for their offices i can be a subcontracter and consultant aswell.
3) how broad can we not understand the term "off-world vehicles not made on this earth"? All you need is some astronauts in a space shuttle attaching a minitature rocket fuel container to a miniature rocket engine and launch it from the craft and voila! That might sound silly but heck there would be some potential strategic advantage for a nation to build some stuff in space to drop it on earth as a alternative way to enter someone else his airspace undetected.
There is some potential of word trolling with all this, the way it's formulated it can still be "non alien".
I'm still of the perception that what is more stirring regarding UAP's in the US is concerns about their national security, in combination with some events/effects on the ground that seem concerning
To be fair, i think i can explain how it all can work contingent on having 1 specific technology that is within the potential grasp of contemporary humans to get, and it all nicely fits if you think it trough further.
Theory: the key about these flying devices is that they have a propulsion powered by a nuclear fusion power unit.
So lets look at it deeper.
1) Is it possible that some rival to the US has managed a breakthrough in nuclear fusion, but choose to not tell the world about it? Yeah sure, nuclear fusion is often seen as something that is just around the corner for humans to invent, and if Russia would invent nuclear fusion it would have reason to keep it secret given how much their economy floats on the sales of hydrocarbons.
2) could a nuclear fusion power plant explain the form of propulsion and effects associated with this craft. Well yes actually:
-first of all a nuclear fusion power plant would allow the craft to achieve a far greater thrust to weight ratio than typically associated with flying vehicles that are based on burning hydrocarbons, therefore achieving far greater speeds and acceleration. With hydrocarbons you often have this issue that the fuel itself adds mass to the the whole so that there is no linear correlation between between added payload and size/mass of the vehicle, its not because you want to shoot double the payload into space with a rocket that it simply requires a rocket twice as big, no it will be rather something like 4 times as big. So given this potentially far better thrust to power ratio such a fusion power craft would be able to achieve far higher speeds, as it hardly needs to consider the mass of its fuel.
-Second point is that for lack of using hydrocarbons for propulsion the craft indeed would not have a fuel burning jet engine, but rather would make use of electromechanical powered propellers. As such, it could for example propel itself by thrusting out a dense jet of air behind it, but since you're working with the mass of air that is before you another alternative is to proppel the craft by creating a vacuum in front of it.
3) the characteristics of a electromechanical propeller based vacuum drive would be that it can do the things these things seem to do, even in relation to going underwater which a jet engine would not achieve. Propellors will work underwater too, and again a principle of proppeling by creation of vacuum before it would allow to go into the sea splash less as the matter is removed and likely compressed rather than pushed aside. it's somewhat similar to the principle of a jet ski, but reversed by using vacuum before it rather than a jet behind it. There would also be a method to avoid cavitation with this, providing you can just displace the mass before it right behind it once surrounded by water and while youre moving. Picture atleast cavitation as something like an air bubble collapsing on itself trough pressure, inward pressure at that, what you rather might get in this case is that the vehicle ejects pressurised mass behind it that exapnds but in a direction to push the vehicle into the vacuum rather than push directionally against the mass behind it, and thus thereby expanding into the space left behind by the vehicle. So rather than that cavitation would occur behind the vehicle, it might actually occur in front of the vehicle as the vacuum should act as a self imploding bubble in relation to the pressurized mass around it, providing atleast it has the time to do that while the vehicle pulls in mass at a high speed as to maintain the vacuum before it.
4) if you think about what the best shape would be to design such a craft that uses a nuclear fusion power source with electromechanical propellers that needs to be aerodynamic in both air and underwater, you would likely choose .. a tic-tac shape. What is the shape of a rocket that aerodynamically needs to move to space? if it wern't for the jet engines, it would look like a tic tac. What is the typical form of a submarine vessel? Yes, it's a tic tac. No wings needed when one has such a thrust to weight ratio it can perfectly fly around on either vectorial thrust or in fact vacuum creation.
5) You might not be even able to see that the craft is powered by propellors, simply by the rediculous magnitude of revolutions achieved by these with such a power source behind it. These propellors would be a little marvel of science on their own i would immagine, requiring a very high precision with very narrow tolerances. That the craft would apparently be very hot inside though is hardly surprising, fusion might achieve temperatures also produced by the sun, although just aswell friction could heat up such a body however when proppulsion is vacuum based that friction could be avoided, in fact a perfect vacuum has actually a typical temperature of 0°C, so that would explain the coldness on the outside, its as such even a rather clever method to cool the whole thing down albeit that for the temperature to be rather cold on the outside it should have a shell build out of a material that is very low in thermal conductivity like say plexiglass but that can then also explain some sort of "shapelessness". Another things is that a fusion power plant likely would need some water, albeit super compressed even when water is difficult to compress just because you have the power to do it. It would atleast also give potential reason as to why you'd like to take a dive with this thing from time to time, even if h2o could also be filtered out of air.
conclusion: it appears to me thus, that much of the characteristics of those objects could be explained by the simple consideration of it potentially having a nuclear fusion based power source, besides even that if you wanted to design a aerial craft that utilized a nuclear fusion power source that likely it would result in something that akes very much to these tic-tac objects.
disclaimer: i have a basic grasp of fysics, thermo and fluido mechanics aswell, but when coming to such things much is a matter of speculation, i'm just speculating based on what i know, perhaps someone even more knowledgable might correct me on a few things i wouldn't be surprised about it and i'm open to be corrected for function of understanding. ;)
