UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[bewildered]

Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war.

No one is going to have any sympathy with us on this issue. The media campaign has already done the damage and even if the CAS overturns the decision, the reputational damage has been done.

If, and it’s a big if, the CAS reduce UEFA’s ban to one-year then I would personally like the club to take it. There are all sorts of deals to be struck in which you accept the punishment but maintain innocence and a one-year ban could benefit the team in the long-run.

More importantly, it allows the club to change the narrative. Us spending too much and ‘cheating’ is no longer news, we’ve taken our punishment.

Instead the club should draw new battle lines . Go after the very nature of FFP and it’s protectionist scheme. Explain how if we did break the rules, it was to enhance the competition. Hammer home how some clubs have far too much influence with governing bodies.

That is the battle to be won and one with other clubs would support us on.

If we accept any punishment at all we are admitting "cheating"...

We have to go all in and clear ourselves of any wrongdoing. If that means exposing FFP for what it is i.e. cartel club protectionism, then thats what needs to happen.

I support the club 100% in this.

If we fold like a wet paper bag just to get back in, things won't change. We will continue to be screwed over at every opportunity in favour of the cartel clubs. I won't pay to watch that shit any more, and I think a lot of supporters feel the same way. No way do I want us making up the numbers.

Fuck em, in this case I'd rather be outside the tent pissing in. The tent will hopefully blow away eventually.

 

[DRINKLEVEDRY]

This will impact hugely on this season's Premier League because teams will be fighting for places without knowing where they have to finish to achieve a spot in the CL. Not that easy to plan games when you don't know if the target is 4th or 5th place. Fans will not know where the finish line is. What a bloody mess.

I'm not very clued up on stuff like this,but if there are only 19 teams playing for euro places for two seasons will they quash the 5th place position.

 

[dickie davies]

Some random thoughts about this scenario:

1) UEFA seem to be basing their case on the Der Spiegal cache of emails. Have they seen these emails or are they solely going off the newspaper reports? What attempts have they made to be sure that there are no emails not known to them? We are told this is a huge data dump - what attempts have been made to ensure they have viewed every email with relevant detail? How have they done this analysis? IF they have used the actual data dump to gather evidence have city also been provided with the same data dump?

2) I've assumed they haven't actually had access to the data dump (although it would be fun if City did have the entire cache of football leaks emails) because Der Spiegal were excited yesterday that it was their research that got us to this point. What steps have UEFA made to verify the veracity and honesty of that research? What steps have they taken to ensure the snippets of emails presented in the paper are accurate particularly when placed back into the context from which they have been ripped? What alternative understandings of the presented fragments of text did they explore and what criteria did they use to dismiss those?

3) The CAS ruling on the Galatasary case commented that Galatasary leaned too heavily on newspaper reports in defence of their case. Are UEFA basing the entirety of their case on newspaper reports?

4) If I remember correctly when we failed FFP the next few years of our accounts were under extra scrutiny? (I may be mistaken about this). What did that scrutiny involve (if it happened) and who at UEFA signed off on them? Does this form part of the case that we misled UEFA?

5) Why did it take so long for the AC to inform City of their findings? How were we informed? Have we been given more detail about what we are being punished for than UEFA have released?

6) if my understanding is correct CAS can only judge based on policies and procedures and can offer no real comment on the evidence collected by UEFA except to say if it was collected effectively or not. Therefore CAS can only acquit us based on technicalities. Will this be enough for City or will they make further attempts to establish their innocence either by explaining more clearly the context of the emails we dispute and/or legal action.

Why does it relate to the period of 2012-16?
Are UEFA holding back so they can charge us again for 2016-2020?

 

[SilverFox2]

For months I've been visiting this thread and reading posts from members who profess to be 'in the know' or work in the legal profession or some other related field and all of them have said this will happen or that will happen and they can't do this or can't do that and this will all blow over or we'll make fools of UEFA and they'll be tied up in knots by our lawyers.

We'll I've read and I've listened and now here we are, two season ban, reputation and legacy sullied forever, reduced revenues, threats of player exodus, new players being harder to attract and yet people, the same people are still saying this is a game of chess that city will win. Why should I believe any of you when up to know you've been wrong.

Maybe it's my pessimistic nature but I see this as a victory for enemies. They've won and we've lost, and that's that.

They appear to have won in their determination to stop us one way or another.
Giving us this ban is now attacking our players and our manager together with transfers in.
Legal battles take time and even if/when we win there will be still the deep rooted resentment that FFP initially brought so we will still be unwelcome.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Interesting...wasnt their also something about a development project they submitted for ffp but then it never materialised

£50m for some new ground feasibility project, like it would cost that much but UEFA allowed it

 

[stan bowles]

This has a strong whiff of City about to do an almighty “If you think WE’VE been doing something naughty, wait until you see what’s been going on at other clubs!”

I don't think this is a valid defence though. Each case judged on its merits and all that. If the CAS believe we have misrepresented our sponsorship deals to inflate our revenues they'll uphold the ban and the fine and we'll have a points deduction from the PL too. It won't matter what other clubs have done.

 

[Robinho's Subbuteo]

You only have to look at Liverpool's sponsors to see how dodgy some of those have been. We all know about Standard Chartered/Western Union and their money laundering activities but there's more. Tibet Water didn't get renewed after even their own fans protested and there was a very shady Russian money launderer who sponsored them via what appears to have been a phony Forex company. Just doing some research on that one.

There’s got to be something dodgy in Coutinho’s £130m transfer to Barca. £130m for Coutinho? Come on.

 

[bewildered]

The fucking us over wont stop with the 2 year UEFA ban either.

Expect the Scousesrs, Rags,Arse to start screaming its unfair we dont have Champions League distractions next season.

That if we do hypothetically win the League by 20 points,they want a 21 point reduction.Or they will go to Court.

Even if we overturn this ban excpect a huge outcry from these same bastards finnishing 5th,6th,.

UEFA has set the Premier League against us,exactly what they wanted.

UEFA "IS" the premier league clubs that hate us. David Gill etc are the ones in power

 

[marco]

For months I've been visiting this thread and reading posts from members who profess to be 'in the know' or work in the legal profession or some other related field and all of them have said this will happen or that will happen and they can't do this or can't do that and this will all blow over or we'll make fools of UEFA and they'll be tied up in knots by our lawyers.

We'll I've read and I've listened and now here we are, two season ban, reputation and legacy sullied forever, reduced revenues, threats of player exodus, new players being harder to attract and yet people, the same people are still saying this is a game of chess that city will win. Why should I believe any of you when up to know you've been wrong.

Maybe it's my pessimistic nature but I see this as a victory for enemies. They've won and we've lost, and that's that.

dont agree,UEFA could have walked away from it and didnt its there trumped up charges and now we know what to defend,it was never our move always there move as it is if the police come to arest you, you need the facts before you place your defence and thats the stage we are at,trouble is at the moment its big news so we are getting over exposure,the CAS hearing will be set and things will die down and we should walk free of any wrong doing

 

[nmc]

Has that point been confirmed?

Basic rule of civil law. punishment suspended until after appeal.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

You're presuming that the UEFA picked judge will side with them (and vice versa of course), as judges they should be impartial and consider all of the evidence. I've certainly got more faith in them than I do in UEFA.

I’d have more faith in Jimmy Saville behaving himself in a playground than UEFA

 

[marco]

Has that point been confirmed?

it was dicussed last night on here,no idea of the page numbers

 

[Saddleworth2]

I am really conflicted by all this. On the one hand my heart says fight this all the way. Present the facts and we will win the argument and prove Uefa to be corrupt and incompetent. But to do that we need a level playing field and impartiality and when the fuck have we ever had that in the last 10 years. It really is just a circus from Pogmol to Uefa and I am starting to think that it is a war we cannot win because of the systemic corruption we are faced with. I hope that the club have got this right and we dont regret turning down the offer of another small 'pinch' that would have allowed Uefa to save face. We have made a very very big call and it might define us as a club for years and years.

 

[Blue Mist]

I am just checking with my legal team if that is defamation of character.

Whilst I accept I am only one of your many legal eagles on this team of yours I can confirm that in my opinion that is defamation. Where your argument falls down is in using the word character. Can you defame a bad character, I will have to ponder that issue further. In the meantime that's £200 please.

 

[vincent]

Basic rule of civil law. punishment suspended until after appeal.

indeed but we are dealing with UEFA here.

 

[Robinho's Subbuteo]

I don't think this is a valid defence though. Each case judged on its merits and all that. If the CAS believe we have misrepresented our sponsorship deals to inflate our revenues they'll uphold the ban and the fine and we'll have a points deduction from the PL too. It won't matter what other clubs have done.

It will if it shows UEFA to be applying one rule for us and different rules for others - which would undermine the Fair Play part of FFP itself.

 

[nmc]

indeed but we are dealing with UEFA here.

It will be CAS that suspends it until after they've heard the appeal.

 

[purplenose]

Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war.

No one is going to have any sympathy with us on this issue. The media campaign has already done the damage and even if the CAS overturns the decision, the reputational damage has been done.

If, and it’s a big if, the CAS reduce UEFA’s ban to one-year then I would personally like the club to take it. There are all sorts of deals to be struck in which you accept the punishment but maintain innocence and a one-year ban could benefit the team in the long-run.

More importantly, it allows the club to change the narrative. Us spending too much and ‘cheating’ is no longer news, we’ve taken our punishment.

Instead the club should draw new battle lines . Go after the very nature of FFP and it’s protectionist scheme. Explain how if we did break the rules, it was to enhance the competition. Hammer home how some clubs have far too much influence with governing bodies.

That is the battle to be won and one with other clubs would support us on.

There maybe no sympathy from rags and scumces but supporters of every other club with any intelligence at all will be right behind us. If City do not overcome this it will be the end of the dream of every single football club that what happened to us could happen to them.

It will effect the prospects of future investments into clubs as wealthy individuals realise their visions will not be allowed to become reality.

Those being so dismissive of the likely or not departure of our owners are blind fools.

I doubt they will be going anywhere without exhausting every avenue to remove the corrupt and restrictive regime that is desperate to protect those chosen few. However should UEFA come out on top there could well be a view that further investment and effort are pointless.

Our owners after all are not lifelong blues born in Stockport!! These guys will not want to let UEFA destroy what they have built at eye watering expense and a decade of work. However should UEFA get away with this it is hard to see where the owners ambitions could be achieved.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

From Samuel’s article:

“At CAS a list of independent arbiters will be provided, with City choosing one, UEFA another, plus a CAS selection, to make the three-strong committee.”

That should worry us all. UEFA will end up choosing two as they will pay off the people that matter within CAS to choose someone they want.

Tell me that won’t happen. Nobody can with any confidence. We have no chance of defeating this evil.

 

[blue by birth]

In a weird way, this could be the making of the Club.
I can't think of anything more likely to unite the fans than this wanton and unjust persecution by a corrupt elite. In addition, unlike our neighbours down the road, we are fully behind the Club's owners. Unity is strength.
The new chant should be "Fuck off Uefa", for 90 minutes, every game.

It would work better as " FUCK UEFA" to the fuck var tune