UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[Manc Born & Bred]

that's a very interesting read, particularly the 10 year battle through the ECHR, and deferment of sanctions until such time as due process is complete. That was a fairly simple case too, involving 1 man and a (with respect) minor club in a minor league.

Our situation is obviously more complex and has significantly greater implications.

Great read and just goes to show how long this could drag on for if we so wished and one would have to assume that any ban would be suspended whilst it dragged through the courts

 

[davek1808]

So let's get this right according to practically every bottom feeding media and press outlet if we're banned for 2 years from the champions league that finishes us as a club and all our players want to leave, now the rags without champions league this season and looking unlikely for next should basically be dead in the water next year shouldn't they?

 

[BamberBridgeBlue]

Rory Smith and Miguel Delaney are buddies, Tariq Panaja is in that dickhead circle too. They can all get to fuck.

On his Twitter feed, Rory claims that FFP doesn't stop any team joining the elite because they can still spend on stadiums, academies and infrastructure so you can join them slowly. Which investor wants that? He then says teams that have been transformed into members of the elite because of good managers are Gladbach, Lazio and Atletico Madrid. FUCKING MENTAL - i don't know much about Gladbach but they're not part of the elite, Lazio and Atleti are well known to have over spent in years gone, their success is a mixture of buying talent, rest of the league having poor seasons and luck. He then goes on to mention how Chelsea changed their entire model because they assumed FFP was real. I'm sorry, but Chelsea spent millions upon millions before they became self-sufficient and now they have the luxury to be able to change their model and i'd argue changing their model was more to do with business and Roman stepping away, than FFP. He argues that FFP has nothing to do with City, it just 'happened' to come along the same time as us. I've even seen one of them nobs post something about an article from 2006 where FFP was being discussed, that's all great but it was being discussed about DEBT at that time and by the time they bothered getting it in they had changed the whole thing so it didn't fuck over teams like Real Madrid and United.

Panaja is a well known Liverpool fan and pushed the De Spiegel stuff, NYT can fuck off.

There is a massive flaw in that argument they put.

So you build up your stadium, infrastructure and academy to join the elite slowly? That assumes you will have a bunch of young players prepared to spend their career at a club whilst it transitions? The reality is you will just be a feeder club. Nothing to stop those already elites from tapping up the best talent and the club either being forced to sell or the player running down his contract, as the club wouldn’t be able to match wages due to FFP.

Sounds fucking great if they assume we are all stupid.

 

[Project1]

Would be easier just to send over the top lawyers to help Rui Pinto stick a few million in his bank account and have him testify in court that all the documents are false and he was asked by several clubs to create this and was promised payment when successful. He is doing time anyway so might as well have some money in the bank to come out too.

 

[BlueAnorak]

All fair points.

Im placing faith in Preswitch blue and Sam Lee in the Athletic who have both suggested we were offered a reasonable way out but we didnt accept.

You're point about the deal not being acceptable makes sense but then if you follow that through -then UEFA expect city will reject the offer and they will us ban us for 2 years. To force this situation they must have some confidence that their position will hold up ar CAS. A loss for UEFA would almost be as disastrous as for City.

As nothing is in the public domain its speculation at the moment. Will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

I believe that UEFA are actually between a rock and a hard place. Drop charges against us and the old guard are more likely to break away.

 

[maurizio]

Rule 57 of the CAS procedural code starts with the following sentence :

R57 Scope of Panel’s Review – Hearing
The Panel has full power to review the facts and the law.

I read that as meaning CAS can rule on the evidential facts as well as procedural matters.

I think I read UEFA asked PWC to look at our accounts and sponsorships. I assume they must have provided evidence as part of UEFA's judgement. We say we have irrefutable evidence in support of our position. I hope that involves documents that prove the source of Etihad's funds and sponsorship money. In which case UEFA either ignored our submission, chose not to believe it or misunderstood it. CAS as an independent body would be able to review this and the club seem to have confidence in our position. In this case the judgement would be more than procedural.

 

[Project1]

Hopefully somebody can clear this up for me?

Uefa have since stated their findings and how they reached a punishment won't be released until after CAS have now ruled?

How do CAS rule unless they are made privy to those findings, in what is bound to be a very public TV case, regardless of reporting restrictions?

You would have to assume that if they have no supporting evidence to support the ban CAS will throw it out. Strange way to do things it is as if they expect to get it overturned.

 

[SWP's back]

What is this HH thing?

Of course it is Mansour.

CFG own official website proves it:

CFG is owned by Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG) (87%) and the China Media Capital (CMC) Consortium (13%). Until December 2015, City Football Group was wholly owned by ADUG, a private investment and development company belonging to His Highness Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan.

https://www.cityfootballgroup.com/our-business/ownership/

Then from our own website, annual report 18-19:

As intended by His Highness Sheikh Mansour, our organisation is now at a level of maturity that enables us to plan on multi-year cycles both in terms of our management of squads and more widely across the business. This strategic planning has allowed us to create an environment in which continued on-pitch success is both possible and likely, and financial sustainability is a reality.

https://www.mancity.com/annualreport2019/chairman.html

You’re missing the point.

HH without a name after it is the Emir.

Your examples are HH followed by a name.

Totally different.

 

[silvalining03]

The club statement shows that they were expecting this verdict, so we are obviously prepared for what comes next. Silver Lake invested in the group last year and would have done their due dilligence at the time totally aware of the ongoing"investigation" by UEFA. As a Private Equity company they would not have invested if there was any doubting of City's position in respect of the case with UEFA.

I believe that the club see this as an opportunity to put any issues with UEFA fully to bed. FFP was initially drawn up by Michel Platini (whatever happened to him).

We have no option but to take this as far as we can and as previously alluded to Khaldoon would rather spend the money on the best lawyers in the world than pay the fine. The owners of the group have not invested the significant sums to see the brand tarnished by these jumped up charges.

This will now see the end of UEFA and be the pre-cursor to a European Super League which is being targeted by Andrea Agnelli.

Sit back and enjoy the ride as plenty of skeletons will be dug up over the course of this battle and there are already plenty of worried people now hoping that this is overturned so as not to be exposed.

 

[BlueMoonz1977]

... does anyone have any knowledge of who this independent may be and how they would be selected?

ip,dip,dog,shit, you, are, not, it

 

[Gordyola]

But he wasn't smart enough to have sensitive financial conversations on a secure encrypted system as happens in major organisations across the world and even in small local authorities who handle residents' confidential financial data but not on an open email system. We can all agreee that we have been stitched up by UEFA but this whole farce has been a failure of management.

The company I work for has lots of very intelligent people who are experts in their fields yet total technophobes and wouldn't think twice about cyber security, in fact they complain when they cant plug in a flash device that hasn't been encrypted

 

[Father Paul]

Come on lads your going hyperbole to win an argument. By all accounts we were offered to be found guilty of a technical breach. This doesnt equate to murder or sexual assault its a slap on the wrists.

I think we all agree whats happened in the last few days has been disastrous and will have long reaching affects. My point is there could and seemingly was a way out of this.

I repeat how can you be sure we were offered a viable way out? The people who may be wrongly accused probably consider it a lot more important than been guilty of a technical breach.Also we can't easily quantify the damage in the medium to long term. If we get back into Europe I would suggest it would be limited. Most of those sneering bastards in the press running us down at present hate us anyway as do a lot of others in football nationally and internationally our brand has and will always suffer as a result.

 

[jaiguruKun]

Hopefully somebody can clear this up for me?

Uefa have since stated their findings and how they reached a punishment won't be released until after CAS have now ruled?

How do CAS rule unless they are made privy to those findings, in what is bound to be a very public TV case, regardless of reporting restrictions?

They won't be revealing their reasons to the press but of course they will have to in submissions to CAS both before and during any hearings. These will not be in the public domain before CAS's decision is reached.

 

[Salford_Blue]

I've been searching for that interview with Platini, when he stated at the outset that FFP would not only look at clubs simply spending what they earn, but at debts accrued.

I've read the full Samuels interview and I don't think it's in there (unless I missed it).

Can others remember this?

Thought it was quite a compelling statement.

Then it suddenly changed, at a time when City were suddenly viewed as a threat.

 

[Gordyola]

I not having that, they would have known the 'rules', its more how the rules have been applied

FAQs here https://www.tas-cas.org/en/general-information/frequently-asked-questions.html

 

[BluechesterCity]

"Rui Pinto will stand trial on 93 charges related to hacking, computer sabotage, illegitimate access, violation of correspondence and attempted extortion."

https://digit.fyi/portuguese-hacker-stands-trial-over-football-leaks/

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Undoubtably. Business managagement fails across the world because they do not understand IT. Indeed, I can count the number of senior execs I have met that understand IT on two fingers (and I have met rather a lot over the last 25 years).

That's true but this is really basic stuff even for very small firms. Confidential financial discussions can't happen on email because emails are not and have never been secure. That's also why your local GP is not allowed to discuss sensitive medical information on email. Its a disciplinary offence and can even lead to criminal prosecution in certain cases.
You don't have to be an IT genius. I am still amazed that no one at CFG has yet been held accountable (to our knowledge) for this fiasco which has already costs us millions in legal fees and reputational damage. Our brand has been trashed because of the stupidity of a small group of senior managers behaving unprofessionally.
I wonder what City's auditors (is it Price Waterhouse?) think about this. Their reputation has been damaged as well.

 

[cookster]

Would be easier just to send over the top lawyers to help Rui Pinto stick a few million in his bank account and have him testify in court that all the documents are false and he was asked by several clubs to create this and was promised payment when successful. He is doing time anyway so might as well have some money in the bank to come out too.

Or hack the f@ck out of the cartel and UEFA.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

... does anyone have any knowledge of who this independent may be and how they would be selected?

One of these, I'm guessing ... https://www.tas-cas.org/en/arbitration/list-of-arbitrators-football-list.html. City choose one, UEFArce choose one and one is selected randomly, although how that is done I don't know. Might be on that site somewhere.

 

[Breadsnapper]

I say let the c***s sweat and leave it till 2 minutes before the deadline runs down, then notify them. That's assuming our fax machine is a significantly better model than the rag's.

They'll say they never got the fax as their machine was out of paper.