UFO sightings from around the gaff....

[TCIB]

Sound TC I have no real leanings either way but I do like Buzzers threads.

I love the idea of it mate don't get me wrong.

I am a man of little faith though, probably as my grandad was a physicist and father a r&d chemist. I was taught to look for evidence by them and it's kind of stuck with me.

I do know we are learning more than at any other point in history, the stats tell you this for example 95% of scientists who ever lived are alive today and the same goes for 85% of engineers.
I hope we do find things that would make Buzzer wet his pants with exitement.

I hold no bias mate, it's just the evidence is thin to say the least at the minute.

 

[Unknown_Genius]

Ah good, a UFO thread.

For me, they exist, and we've been visited. I am 100% convinced of that. Its a subject that fascinates me, I used to be really skeptical on it, but I've researched, and done my homework, and its become too much to just dismiss. Its getting late now, but I'll write a more detailed reason for my belief tomorrow, along with stuff, that would make even the most hardened skeptic scratch his head.

 

[BulgarianPride]

You're thinking like a human, because that's all we know.

Tbh i was just being accurate to what the definition of flight is :p

Well what my mortal coil accepts as a definition or standard anyway.

And that's it see, we only know what WE know. I'm sure there are races out there looking at us and laughing at our lack of technology, why not? 'Wings to fly?!', 'big fucking engines to fly?!', they might say. Course that's all we know and all we have developed, so to us that's as far as it goes. To some other race from another planet though that could be as medieval as it gets.

There is a difference to what we know is possible and what actually is possible. I am quite sure there is a limit, an absolute limit ( absolute zero is an absolute limit) to what we can achieve. I also think we are no where near that limit, but who is to say that when that limit is reached, we still can't break the speed of light? All the experiments over the last hundred years have suggested this is the absolute speed limit only reachable by light. No object of mass can reach it, and definitely not break it. Worm hole theories have absolutely no physical evidence behind them, so in reality they could just be in our imagination.

Higher dimensional beings? Do we even have proof there is such thing as higher dimensions? Real physical proof not mathematical concepts.

Infinite universe theory? First you must prove there is more than one in order to claim there is infinite. All these theories are sometimes used to explain how we can be visited by alien. The way i see it is, there is a civilization out there that is more advanced than us, the problem is DISTANCE. Even at the speed of light it is still a gigantic problem. Is it possible to bend and manipulate space time? Humans can't, not yet. The question is , is it even physically possible to that? If the answer is no, then the probability of being visited by someone more advanced than us is nearly 0. To even locate us, searching randomly would take a long long time. Narrowing down search targets based on EM emissions would mean that they need to be in about 100 light years from here. Are they? What is the probability that from the large vastness of space they are withing 100 lights years of us? If they were there one day before our EM got there, they'd miss everything.

 

[1.618034]

By physical laws, i mean what the universe allows us to do. Not our understanding of the laws.

But again, how do you know, how does mankind know the true greatness and maximum potential of WHAT IS AND IS'NT ALLOWED? We aint even scraped the surface in terms of what can be achieved imo, being such a fledgling bunch of beings for want of a better summary.

That is why I said big IF. If we look at one side, we also need to look at the other.

It is also possible but highly unlikely that we are alone in the universe.

-- Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:47 am --

By physical laws, i mean what the universe allows us to do. Not our understanding of the laws.

But again, how do you know, how does mankind know the true greatness and maximum potential of WHAT IS AND IS'NT ALLOWED? We aint even scraped the surface in terms of what can be achieved imo, being such a fledgling bunch of beings for want of a better summary.

That is why I said big IF. If we look at one side, we also need to look at the other.

It is also possible but highly unlikely that we are alone in the universe.

I don't think we're alone in the universe at all. I'd say it's pretty certain that we can't be the only planet with "intelligent" life. We're probably not even the only one's in our galaxy. But the distances alone that are involved are huge.... Almost incomprehensible that another intelligent species will rise to that level at the same time (relatively) as us and within communication or even touching distance.

There are so many factors against us ever contacting or being contacted is truly astronomical and if they're anything like us they'll probably be more interested in beer, footy, fighting and shagging and will use up their own resources before they get chance to even try interstellar travel. I mean we're not even close to getting interstellar exploration (Voyager is still within the realm of the solar system and is 73600 years away from Proxima Centauri and who's to say that it's planets (if it has any) harbour life?

There are a lot of natural factors, climate change/asteroid impacts/volcanoes/earthquakes which limit the chances of any species ever transcending their own planets never mind their own solar systems. Other galaxies? Practically impossible.

I really would love to think that in my life time we'll see a probe or craft like voyager from another planet... the interest and paradigm shift that something like that would cause and the way we see the universe would change overnight and we may at last see that it is worth investing in the science/technology. But as it stands NASA's budgets are being slashed and there are no plans to do anything but study from a distance for the foreseeable future...

I always check these threads and such like because I, one day, want to be convinced. But so far it's just International Space Stations, balloons, aircraft or weather patterns... Or fakes.

Keep em coming though because one day you never know eh?

As for other dimensions... The maths looks good (apparently) and if they do exist then they're not that far away, distance wise.. In fact they are probably everywhere all around us. We know where other stars are but they're too far away whereas higher dimensions are around/within us so I don't think UFOs are where they're going to be at. Why a higher dimensional being would provide some kind of spacecraft or even light show in the sky is anyone's guess but I just don't see that as a means of interaction. But again we're a long way from transcending dimensions using some huge machine or energy force but it all makes good food for thought and will provide some good sci-fi entertainment. Maybe it's only going to be achieved within the mind/conciousness...?

The fact and reality is that, in all probability, no human being is ever going to connect to an ET never mind anyone in our time... But we're not going to stop looking. Are we?

-)

PS I've not watched all these latest vids yet as my machine's playing up but I'll check em out on the iPad and let you know if, fwiw, I think there's anything that's not been said.

 

[1.618034]

Sound TC I have no real leanings either way but I do like Buzzers threads.

I love the idea of it mate don't get me wrong.

I am a man of little faith though, probably as my grandad was a physicist and father a r&d chemist. I was taught to look for evidence by them and it's kind of stuck with me.

I do know we are learning more than at any other point in history, the stats tell you this for example 95% of scientists who ever lived are alive today and the same goes for 85% of engineers.
I hope we do find things that would make Buzzer wet his pants with exitement.

I hold no bias mate, it's just the evidence is thin to say the least at the minute.

This...

 

[1.618034]

Tbh i was just being accurate to what the definition of flight is :p

Well what my mortal coil accepts as a definition or standard anyway.

And that's it see, we only know what WE know. I'm sure there are races out there looking at us and laughing at our lack of technology, why not? 'Wings to fly?!', 'big fucking engines to fly?!', they might say. Course that's all we know and all we have developed, so to us that's as far as it goes. To some other race from another planet though that could be as medieval as it gets.

There is a difference to what we know is possible and what actually is possible. I am quite sure there is a limit, an absolute limit ( absolute zero is an absolute limit) to what we can achieve. I also think we are no where near that limit, but who is to say that when that limit is reached, we still can't break the speed of light? All the experiments over the last hundred years have suggested this is the absolute speed limit only reachable by light. No object of mass can reach it, and definitely not break it. Worm hole theories have absolutely no physical evidence behind them, so in reality they could just be in our imagination.

Higher dimensional beings? Do we even have proof there is such thing as higher dimensions? Real physical proof not mathematical concepts.

Infinite universe theory? First you must prove there is more than one in order to claim there is infinite. All these theories are sometimes used to explain how we can be visited by alien. The way i see it is, there is a civilization out there that is more advanced than us, the problem is DISTANCE. Even at the speed of light it is still a gigantic problem. Is it possible to bend and manipulate space time? Humans can't, not yet. The question is , is it even physically possible to that? If the answer is no, then the probability of being visited by someone more advanced than us is nearly 0. To even locate us, searching randomly would take a long long time. Narrowing down search targets based on EM emissions would mean that they need to be in about 100 light years from here. Are they? What is the probability that from the large vastness of space they are withing 100 lights years of us? If they were there one day before our EM got there, they'd miss everything.

Exactly. If it takes light 100's of years then the actual travel time is beyond belief even with current theories...

And the thing is... Even if we could get near the speed of light, it wouldn't make any difference to anyone left behind...

"Special relativity offers the possibility of shortening the travel time: if a starship with sufficiently advanced engines could reach velocities approaching the speed of light, relativistic time dilation would make the voyage much shorter for the traveller. However, it would still take many years of elapsed time as viewed by the people remaining on Earth, and upon returning to Earth, the travelers would find that far more time had elapsed on Earth than had for them. (For more on this effect, see twin paradox.)" <a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel</a>

If anyone's going/arriving, they're going/here for good. But again, the actual possibilities of that happening, to us, are almost nil.

<a class="postlink" href="http://janus.astro.umd.edu/cgi-bin/astro/distance.pl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://janus.astro.umd.edu/cgi-bin/astro/distance.pl</a>

 

[buzzer1]

Your reply is very incoherrant.

Authoritarians ?, sorry bud but your making no sense at all here.
Use punctuation properly and i may be able to respond to you.

Where do i "bang on" about authoritarians ? quote me please.

Are you infering scientists are authoritarians ? If so your ill educated on the sciences and what drives those who work in the fields.
They discover new things and want to be proven wrong in order to advance.
Of course i want to be payed but i also enjoy my work as a research chemist and what it can possibly do to benefit mankind.

Narrow minded ill educated people are the authoritarians, they demand of you, which no scientist does. They will offer you the truth and it is up to you if you accept it.

You don't offend me bud, you can't offend me as i can back up my beliefs with fact, reason and PROOF. If you call my family nasty names then yes, but in this context i don't see how being hurt or upset can come into it.

You do understand the concept of tangibility and testing tangible items or ideas right ?.


Your video is a man stating about malfunctioning misiles that is unexplained.
He offers no proof and does not advance your arguement at all.
What were you even attempting to show with this video ? becuase it's unexplained it must be extra terestrial interference ?

What's next a god of the gaps type poor attempt at substanciating your view points ? hehe.

You could dig Einstein up and have him say he believes it, this does not alter any the fact you have the burden of proof, of which non of you have ever been able to show.

Morning mate. Right firstly i think you understood my post very well last night, you know i was driving at the fact that Authority should'nt be the truth and only the truth, "thruth should be the authority and not the other way around. EG, if a tramp is sat at on a bench and has sat there in all weathers for the last 3 years and he knows for a fact that the number 9 bus should be there at say 11am on the dot, however he knows for a fact that the said bus always gets there at 11.04 EVERYDAY because evry driver of that bus like to stop for a morning paper at the newsagents en route; ok now there is a Copper standing by the tramps bench and a tourist ask the copper what time the number 9 bus is due, the copper then walks over to the timetable at the bus stop and says 11.00am mate, so the tramp pipes up and says nah mate, it's due at 11.04; now tcib who do you think tourist will believe?

Also you know that we are fed only certain amounts of info don't you? i mean take the chinese/Americans etc that release technology ie the latest laptop, ipad orr mobile phone, you know that there are bigger and better technology that they are holding back and we are at least a few years behind when it comes to this sort of stuff, you know this right?
You know what i am driving at so i will leave it there.

Just one last thing and you do not have to answer it and in noway i am i angling at a pissing contest, but have you ever taken Mushrooms or DMT?

 

[Unknown_Genius]

Roscoe Hillenkoetter was the first director of the CIA, and formed the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena. He admitted the existence of UFOs and wanted public disclosure of evidence.

Perhaps Hillenkoetter's best-known statement on the subject was in 1960 in a letter to Congress, as reported in the New York Times: "Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense."

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_H._Hillenkoetter#Board_Member_of_NICAP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_H._ ... r_of_NICAP</a>

So there we have a person in a high position, with access to knowledge and secrets the public know nothing about, saying they exist. Here's an interesting link about John F Kennedy's interest in UFOs:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/18/the-jfk-ufo-connection-bogus-documents-or-unanswered-questions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/18/the-j ... questions/</a>

Speaking of presidents, Jimmy Carter has witnessed a UFO:

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_UFO_incident" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_UFO_incident</a>

The sighting is said to have had a personal impact on Carter and his perception of UFO and UFO sightings. During his 1976 election campaign, he is said to have told reporters that, as a result of it, he would institute a policy of openness if he were elected to office, saying:

"One thing's for sure, I'll never make fun of people who say they've seen unidentified objects in the sky. If I become President, I'll make every piece of information this country has about UFO sightings available to the public and the scientists."

Despite his earlier pledge, once elected, Carter distanced himself from disclosure, citing "defense implications" as being behind his decision.

The most convincing thing for me though is this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-RPWhigpQg[/youtube]

It gets really interesting 5 minutes in, and you hear Edgar Mitchell's interview.

People often say there is never any evidence left behind. Well then...

<a class="postlink" href="http://spacetime.forumotion.com/t944-physical-trace-evidence-ufo-cases" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://spacetime.forumotion.com/t944-ph ... -ufo-cases</a>

Just read about the Delphos case in Kansas. UFOs leaving behind evidence, who'd have thunk?

There is so much stuff out there, which all points in the direction there is something out there we do not understand, and have yet to know everything about. Yes, people today mostly dismiss it, and paint anyone who believes in it as some kind of nutjob. The problem is some folks don't want their world rocked, and just believe whatever their TV, newspapers, and 'official sources' state. My view is there's so much we don't understand, both about our own planet and the universe. As Socrates once said: “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” To suggest we know everything, and there is nothing to look at anymore, is arrogant.

 

[buzzer1]

Roscoe Hillenkoetter was the first director of the CIA, and formed the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena. He admitted the existence of UFOs and wanted public disclosure of evidence.

Perhaps Hillenkoetter's best-known statement on the subject was in 1960 in a letter to Congress, as reported in the New York Times: "Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense."

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_H._Hillenkoetter#Board_Member_of_NICAP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_H._ ... r_of_NICAP</a>

So there we have a person in a high position, with access to knowledge and secrets the public know nothing about, saying they exist. Here's an interesting link about John F Kennedy's interest in UFOs:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/18/the-jfk-ufo-connection-bogus-documents-or-unanswered-questions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/18/the-j ... questions/</a>

Speaking of presidents, Jimmy Carter has witnessed a UFO:

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_UFO_incident" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_UFO_incident</a>

The sighting is said to have had a personal impact on Carter and his perception of UFO and UFO sightings. During his 1976 election campaign, he is said to have told reporters that, as a result of it, he would institute a policy of openness if he were elected to office, saying:

"One thing's for sure, I'll never make fun of people who say they've seen unidentified objects in the sky. If I become President, I'll make every piece of information this country has about UFO sightings available to the public and the scientists."

Despite his earlier pledge, once elected, Carter distanced himself from disclosure, citing "defense implications" as being behind his decision.

The most convincing thing for me though is this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-RPWhigpQg[/youtube]

It gets really interesting 5 minutes in, and you hear Edgar Mitchell's interview.

People often say there is never any evidence left behind. Well then...

<a class="postlink" href="http://spacetime.forumotion.com/t944-physical-trace-evidence-ufo-cases" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://spacetime.forumotion.com/t944-ph ... -ufo-cases</a>

Just read about the Delphos case in Kansas. UFOs leaving behind evidence, who'd have thunk?

There is so much stuff out there, which all points in the direction there is something out there we do not understand, and have yet to know everything about. Yes, people today mostly dismiss it, and paint anyone who believes in it as some kind of nutjob. The problem is some folks don't want their world rocked, and just believe whatever their TV, newspapers, and 'official sources' state. My view is there's so much we don't understand, both about our own planet and the universe. As Socrates once said: “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” To suggest we know everything, and there is nothing to look at anymore, is arrogant.

We having a Church service? maybe gretna or you wanna do the Vegas thing?:)

 

[Unknown_Genius]

Well, it is Sunday morning, gotta educate the good old folks...