UK far right trouble

KDB Fan said:
You gave your opinion about some extremely dystopian contempt of court law and I was just challenging it. If you don't want to defend it, I wouldn't blame you because it would criminalise vast swathes of the population including the entire field of criminology! People speculate about the perpetrators of crime, always have done and always will do and as farfetched/uncomfortable as some of the theories can sometimes be, it speaks to a sickness in our country that we've started locking people up for it, even if those theories turn out to be true.

And no, people didn't fight in WW2 for the Allies so they could censor people and lock them up for saying things they don't like. You're thinking of the Nazis.
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Free speech and democracy go hand in hand with peaceful protest. If your point is compelling enough then peaceful protest will always win the day.
 
KDB Fan said:
You gave your opinion about some extremely dystopian contempt of court law and I was just challenging it. If you don't want to defend it, I wouldn't blame you because it would criminalise vast swathes of the population including the entire field of criminology! People speculate about the perpetrators of crime, always have done and always will do and as farfetched/uncomfortable as some of the theories can sometimes be, it speaks to a sickness in our country that we've started locking people up for it, even if those theories turn out to be true.

And no, people didn't fight in WW2 for the Allies so they could censor people and lock them up for saying things they don't like. You're thinking of the Nazis.
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But that's just silly isn't it, come on. People can speculate about crime and that is fine, we do it on here for example but on here it's done in a non-serious and low level way which does no harm. Nothing in this forum is likely to prejudice a trial in progress, you may as well tell it to the wall.

The people who were locked up weren't doing anything in a low-key way. They were trying to achieve the exact opposite which is to get people to 'rise up' or they just wanted to loudly spout hate and antagonise minorities. In the end they got what they wanted and there was violence so they were jailed, I don't see how this is controversial.

Do you not find it ironic that many of the people that you're defending on free speech actually turned out to have a huge array of previous offences? Some of them were actually literal nonces who went out to riot about a child murderer, even more ironic! Do you not think this is actually the reason why some were sent to prison?

When it comes to contempt very few people get this far. Only Tommy Robinson has been accused of contempt and he's now serving 18 months for it because what he did was plainly contempt. If however what he did was actually genuine free speech or journalism then why didn't he challenge it?

If a 12 person jury would agree that it wasn't contempt then why on earth did he plead guilty? Why did he also grift £100k for his defence only to forget defending himself and just plead guilty? Like all the others jailed, the reality is he pled guilty because he was otherwise going to get put away for a very long time.
 
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inbetween said:
But that's just silly isn't it, come on. People can speculate about crime and that is fine, we do it on here for example but on here it's done in a non-serious and low level way which does no harm. Nothing in this forum is likely to prejudice a trial in progress, you may as well tell it to the wall.

The people who were locked up weren't doing anything in a low-key way. They were trying to achieve the exact opposite which is to get people to 'rise up' or they just wanted to loudly spout hate and antagonise minorities. In the end they got what they wanted and there was violence so they were jailed, I don't see how this is controversial.

Do you not find it ironic that many of the people that you're defending on free speech actually turned out to have a huge array of previous offences? Some of them were actually literal nonces who went out to riot about a child murderer, even more ironic! Do you not think this is actually the reason why some were sent to prison?

When it comes to contempt very few people get this far. Only Tommy Robinson has been accused of contempt and he's now serving 18 months for it because what he did was plainly contempt. If however what he did was actually genuine free speech or journalism then why didn't he challenge it?

If a 12 person jury would agree that it wasn't contempt then why on earth did he plead guilty? Why did he also grift £100k for his defence only to forget defending himself and just plead guilty? Like all the others jailed, the reality is he pled guilty because he was otherwise going to get put away for a very long time.
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You're missing an absolutely key point. A lot of this speculation took place before any charge or trial was arranged. How can you prejudice a trial that doesn't exist? You can't. It's just a justification to lock up people's opinions who you don't like and anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see that.

Sooner or later, there'll be a government in charge who don't like what you've said in the past or things you've speculated about - even if you were right. I hope it doesn't take them locking you for you to learn the value of free speech.

Also, I despair if you think the right to express yourself should depend on whether you've got previous offences or not.
 
Cresta Court Hotel in Altrincham closed for Asylum Seekers (2nd hotel in Altrincham to accommodate them i’ve been told)

Bloody Altrincham hey

Too posh for riots or are they waiting for Tommy to get out ;-)
 
Wouldn't normally quote myself. But there's a reason.

ZenHalfTimeCrock said:
As I mentioned on another thread earlier today, it does not seem beyond the realms of possibility for someone to attempt to make use of the methods described in terrorist manuals without them necessarily subscribing to that particular terrorist ideology.

For example, I might mine something like, say, The Anarchist Cookbook or The Management of Savagery for hints and tips on how to perpetrate acts of terror without myself being either an anarchist or a Salafi-Jihadist.

With this offender, we simply don’t know what went on.

He may very well be a self-radicalised Lone Wolf jihadist. But that isn’t 100% certain. He may also possibly be schizophrenic, or in thrall to some other form of psychological or ideological derangement.

In which case, it is premature to assume that the discovery of an al-Qaeda manual vindicates the initial assumptions that were made on social media about the faith of the perpetrator of the Southport atrocity.

Plus, none of this in any way justifies what subsequently took place, namely, the besieging of a mosque and a hotel housing asylum seekers (if I remember rightly) putting those inside in fear for their lives.

Checked on X a few minutes ago and the odious Laurence Fox was once again caricaturing Islam as a ‘death cult’.

Away from this board I maintain a blog for students of A level Religious Studies.

Am going to get a shot of Fox’s tweet and, if I can find the time, will dedicate a future blog entry to the comprehensive evisceration of that ludicrous claim.
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My position is still that we simply don't know and we'll find out more at the trial.
 
ZenHalfTimeCrock said:
Wouldn't normally quote myself. But there's a reason.





My position is still that we simply don't know and we'll find out more at the trial.
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I’m a big fan of your posts.

Always considered, researched and eloquent on these kind of subjects.

You can also tell how insightful they are, as every conspiracy loon doesn’t dare to try and debate you, as they know they would have to know stuff that is researched and full of facts. If only more were like you!
 
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