UK government to block Scottish gender bill - first time a devolved government has been blocked from passing a law.

[metalblue]

You're right it isn't funded as well as it should be.

But you're wrong when you state there isn't a problem with the process and the guidelines. At present dysphoria is treated as a medical condition and the route to a gender recognition certificate is through medical professionals.

This is from the NHS website
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Who can apply​

You can apply if you meet all of the following requirements:

• you’re aged 18 or over
• you’ve been diagnosed with gender dysphoria in the UK
• you’ve been living in your affirmed gender for at least 2 years
• you intend to live in this gender for the rest of your life

If you do not have a gender dysphoria diagnosis​

You might still be able to apply, but only if you meet all of the following requirements:

• you currently live in England, Wales or Scotland
• you were in a marriage or a civil partnership on 10 December 2014 and living in England or Wales, or on 15 December 2014 and living in Scotland
• you had been living in your affirmed gender for at least 6 years before those dates, and you have evidence of that
• you have had gender affirmation surgery

If this applies to you, contact the Gender Recognition Panel admin team to find out how to apply. It’s a different process to the one described in the rest of this guidance.
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What Scotland wants is self ID and that's the core aim of the transgender rights movement.

The major goal of transgender activism is to allow changes to identification documents to conform with a person's current gender identity without the need for sex reassignment surgery or any medical requirements whatsoever. So process and guidelines is very much the problem. The Scottish government wants gender self-identification, Westminster does not.

So improving the existing system is not the answer, because the transgender rights movement don't want the existing system improved, they want it binned in favour of self ID and so does Nicola Sturgeon.

Surely anyone who wants to change gender has gender dysphoria. Probably too simplistic and I’ve no objections whatsoever to lowering thresholds. I don’t agree that anyone who hasn’t undergone sufficient treatment (HT/surgical) should be allowed in to single sex environments such as female changing rooms.

 

[metalblue]

While we are on that, it is changing to 18 in England and Wales in February I believe, has already been passed just needs to come into effect. Remaining as 16 in Scotland. The difference however existed since the 1700s, it only overlapped for about 80 odd years.

I don’t agree with that at all then mate. Scotland, like Wales and NI should have had the right to veto it. That’s a bit having our cake and eating it.

I appreciate it might only have been aligned more recently in our shared histories but that doesn’t mean it was right not to be.

 

[Gabriel]

 

[Coatigan]

I don’t agree with that at all then mate. Scotland, like Wales and NI should have had the right to veto it. That’s a bit having our cake and eating it.

I appreciate it might only have been aligned more recently in our shared histories but that doesn’t mean it was right not to be.

Why? They are at the end of the day 4 separate countries. As such it is natural they can all have different laws, whether that is smoking, drinking, driving, marrying, identifying as a gender or whatever. There will be plenty examples, like gay marriage for example didnt reach all at the same time.

 

[blueparrot]

I do take your wider point that difference exists. I can’t think of anything on this scale however.

As far as I know it’s only legal in England to be married in Gretna at 16 because we can marry at 16 in the UK, we just need parental permission so it circumvents that requirement but it’s still legal to be married. If the law changed in UK to be married at 18 then that would create a bit of a challenge, I’d strongly argue that should the UK government want to raise it to 18, then it should require the consent of all nations - for all the same reasons.

Scottish law is very different to English across many issues. Voting for one is 16 in Scotland 18 in England. Having different rights between England and Scotland is no issue, as different laws between N.Ireland England and Scotland is also no issue .Except for those that want it to be. This as far as I can see in fairly small scale.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

That's nothing new though. There have been plenty of examples of different laws on different side of the border, long before this parliament existed. And there will always be, union of unequal parts or no union. Like the English historically crossing the border to marry at a younger age, or the Scots nipping down for a fag indoors.

I do think some of the current chosen subjects for legislation (voting age and trans thing) have been raised with a certain amount of tactical mischief in mind.

 

[Coatigan]

I do think some of the current chosen subjects for legislation (voting age and trans thing) have been raised with a certain amount of tactical mischief in mind.

Why though? What makes you think that. Why those in particular, if any? There have been plenty that could have been seen as the right ones, gay marriage for example, David Cameron was under immense pressure to not allow that by senior Tories, and he had to pander to them to avoid being pushed to 'block' it. Was that one also put out in mischief, or just good will?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Why though? What makes you think that. Why those in particular, if any? There have been plenty that could have been seen as the right ones, gay marriage for example, David Cameron was under immense pressure to not allow that by senior Tories, and he had to pander to them to avoid being pushed to 'block' it. Was that one also put out in mischief, or just good will?

No, that was for gays and that.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Surely anyone who wants to change gender has gender dysphoria. Probably too simplistic and I’ve no objections whatsoever to lowering thresholds. I don’t agree that anyone who hasn’t undergone sufficient treatment (HT/surgical) should be allowed in to single sex environments such as female changing rooms.

This is from the Stonewall website....

Gender dysphoria​

Used to describe when a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their sex assigned at birth and their gender identity.

This is also the clinical diagnosis for someone who doesn’t feel comfortable with the sex they were assigned at birth.

Cisgender or Cis​

Someone whose gender identity is the same as the sex they were assigned at birth. Non-trans is also used by some people.
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What you see here is the central position of gender identity, around which everything else orbits. Trans activists believe we all have a gender identity, you, me, everyone, and it is our gender identity that defines us. For some our gender identity matches our "sex assigned at birth", we are cisgender. For those whose gender identity does not match their "sex assigned at birth", they can be any one of a multitude of various genders or even "gender fluid". But wherever folk lie on this spectrum, that is who they are. Hence the drive to get rid of procedures and medical professionals and replace them with self ID, because Self ID is simply an affirmation of ones true self.

If you believe all this, then your sex, your biological sex, is immaterial, hence the rallying cry "Trans Women Are Women! Trans men are men!" And this is the new reality because it is ones gender identity that defines you, over and above all else.

So if you're born in a male body, but your gender identity is that of a woman (whatever that is), then that makes you a woman, hence trans women are women. And if you're born in a female body, but your gender identity is that of a man (again, whatever that is), then that makes you a man, hence trans men are men.

 

[Coatigan]

No, that was for gays and that.

It was a genuine question, the first part in particular. Seen one or two make that claim, and while I am not arguing it, I honestly want to know how people think that one or the other in particular were targeted for said reason, of deliberately antagonising constitutional differences.