United (A) | PL | Post Match Thread

herrock said:
It is an f off signal here. It dates back to when we were in battles with the french . When the french caught an English archer they would cut off his two fingers to prevent him pulling the bow string.
Those that still had their fingers held them up in defiance of the french!
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Agincourt, where we thrashed the Frogies.
 
herrock said:
It is an f off signal here. It dates back to when we were in battles with the french . When the french caught an English archer they would cut off his two fingers to prevent him pulling the bow string.
Those that still had their fingers held them up in defiance of the french!
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in short, french don’t like fingering .
 
Pulling this over from the main United thread. Think this game has really caused it to sink in just how dire their situation is when it comes to their chances of becoming a genuinely elite club again.

youngbob said:
At the top of this post, it's worth pointing out that, without Busby and Ferguson's records, United have only won 15 trophies in their entire history. Without those two men, they're just like everybody else. And I've got a feeling Ten Hag's eventual departure will finally be the one that kills off any hope United have in terms of hoping that one man can simply take the entire club on his shoulders and win titles, just as Fergie and Busby did.

Moyes would simply continue Fergie's legacy; Van Gaal would bring a continental style to update United's footballing identity and rid them of Moyes' ghost; Mourinho would buy a load of galacticos and finally sort out Van Gaal's slow possession-based bullshit with a "proper winner's mentality"; Solskjaer would bring Fergie's spirit back to take United to titles and rid them of Mourinho's toxicity; Ten Hag would finally, finally bring serious modern coaching and proper authority back to United after years of malaise.

They've tried every approach under the sun when it comes to managers. What's next?

The reality is that, at least when it comes to United wanting to compete with the elites, the entire operation needs ripping up and starting again, and it's going to take at least a decade to rid the club of its current culture. This goes beyond the Glazers simply selling to Ratcliffe or Qatar - just look at PSG, underperforming and overpaying without much of a plan beyond prioritising commercial viability over everything else (which, to be fair, United already do).

Everything needs reworking from top to bottom. They laughed at us when Soriano and Begiristain used the word "holistic" in that statement in 2012 - who's laughing now? Their stadium is rotting internally, there are constant leaks from within the club, their handlings of the Greenwood and Anthony affairs were both major administrative failures, somehow everybody they sign gets worse or has their reputation destroyed. Who would want to be there?

For years United were able to sell themselves as an attractive prospect to young players. "Come to the Theatre of Dreams and you'll play football like you've never known before". Now when young lads are thinking of going there, all they'll see is what's happened to Maguire, Sancho, Pogba, and Lukaku. Full internationals, World Cup winners, £80m signings - all of them on the scrapheap and having to take a downward move just to keep playing.

That's without mentioning the likes of Ronaldo, Falcao, Angel Di Maria, Alexis Sanchez, Mkhitaryan, who were all seasoned pros that had to leave United quickly to boost their reputations again. And the likes of Daniel James, Wilfried Zaha, Marcos Rojo, Depay, Van De Beek - what young player would want to join United now when there's a long line of failed prospects and barely any successes? The brand is beginning to crumble now.

Contrast that to how City have been run for the last decade. It took a few years to bear fruit but now look. Every player we sign (except maybe Kalvin Phillips) gets better after being coached by Pep, we're treble winners and threepeat title winners, our stadium is constantly being developed, we train in what is essentially a gated community, our young players either get to the first team or get huge transfer fees when they move on.

So even if you're not as good as Foden or Rico Lewis, you'll still get to play regular top level football - think of the likes of James Trafford, Pedro Porro, Romeo Lavia, Cole Palmer, James McAtee, Eric Garcia, Brahim Diaz, Tosin Adarabioyo, Angelino, Aleix Garcia etc. even Sancho before his move to United. All of them are either bright prospects or established top level players now. Why would you pick United over us these days?

On top of that, a former assistant manager of ours is one of the best young managers in the Premier League, our former club captain has just stormed the Championship as a manager, and another former coach of ours (Maresca) is about to do the same with Leicester (with another academy prospect of ours, Iheanacho). Everything runs like clockwork from top to bottom and the legacy of what's been built since 2012 is visible everywhere.

It took 10 years for us to achieve this and it still took that long despite having owners and a board who were all on the same page. At the moment United don't even have owners that want to sell. When their fans were chanting about their 20 league titles while languishing in 7th under Moyes, I made a little joke with myself that we'd be singing about our 20th league title before they ever sung about their 21st. It might not be a joke soon enough.
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spacecadet said:
Have been watching a kid on youtube doing tactical analysis (Yes OC with time on my hands). He seems to think Pep's latest genius dust is "False Wingers". I hadn't really noticed on Sunday was too engrossed in hatred for the rags. He said it was Grealish and Bernardo swapping that wreaked the havoc, along with Gvardiol making driving runs? He said "the rest of the premier league will be trying to copy this as of now". Peppy Boy ripped the rags a new one with false 9s, then two seasons ago rinsed them with inverted full backs. We have a genius in our ranks :-)
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we also play false center back
john stone and akanji
 
youngbob said:
Pulling this over from the main United thread. Think this game has really caused it to sink in just how dire their situation is when it comes to their chances of becoming a genuinely elite club again.
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This is an excellent post. May I add one key ingredient? As they've floundered, their competition has strengthened. You point out City, but let's add Liverpool -- long-tenured manager with a specific style and way of playing. And money. Let's add Arsenal -- a manager who could have been jettisoned but they've stuck with him and improved. And they have some money. There's Toon -- they have tons of money but more important, plenty of patience. There's Spurs. They're -- well -- Spurs, but at least as good this year as they have been in a while, and even if you think they'll Spurs themselves as usual, they have one important high-quality asset Utd doesn't -- a beautiful brand new ground which can be leveraged for revenue-making opportunities. Perhaps we should talk about Villa too, or Brighton, though these may be flashes in the pan. Does anyone think Chelsea won't eventually be back with their money? Brentford and Palace -- two London based clubs with at least a modicum of ambition and capital sit as assets waiting to be levered too albeit FFP starts to bite any major ambition.

All these clubs will have ups and downs, but never again will Utd have one competitor at a time. The monopoly/duopoly has been shattered for good.

In short, no objective observer would look at their current failures in a one-club vacuum . . . but they do! Here's how I know: there's no way on EARTH the Glazers proforma 7th place or whatever as a potential outcome when they run their anticipated cash flow and earnings models. If they did, they'd have sold the club a few weeks back in an instant. It's not just the delusion in their past and present that's at issue -- it's delusion about their future, a future in which they have better-financed, better-managed business organiz(s)ations in their own league which have and will continue to translate into better pitch performance for an extended period. Only they are so far up their own asses ("But . . . but . . . but . . . this is MANCHESTER UNITED we're talking about!") they make decisions based on this wonderful phrase @SkyBlueFlux came up with -- "presumptive exceptionalism."
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
That's a great post. Pep also gave Grealish a much more free role in the Young Boys match with him moving across to the right frequently. Perhaps it was a rehearsal for Sunday. Grealish and Bernardo dragged United's defenders left and right in the second half leaving a gaping whole down the centre of United's pitiful defence.
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The other thing is that I don't think a full strength Utd team (whatever that would look like) would've fared any better on the day.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
If it's violent conduct, then it should be an automatic red. Let's be honest, the challenge itself was a blatant yellow (if only that). The reaction afterwards is a clear red.
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I remember Foy sending Vinny off in an FA Cup game against these cunts for a no contact challenge not as bad as Anthonys and Foy telling the world that the intent was enough, go figure.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
This is an excellent post. May I add one key ingredient? As they've floundered, their competition has strengthened. You point out City, but let's add Liverpool -- long-tenured manager with a specific style and way of playing. And money. Let's add Arsenal -- a manager who could have been jettisoned but they've stuck with him and improved. And they have some money. There's Toon -- they have tons of money but more important, plenty of patience. There's Spurs. They're -- well -- Spurs, but at least as good this year as they have been in a while, and even if you think they'll Spurs themselves as usual, they have one important high-quality asset Utd doesn't -- a beautiful brand new ground which can be leveraged for revenue-making opportunities. Perhaps we should talk about Villa too, or Brighton, though these may be flashes in the pan. Does anyone think Chelsea won't eventually be back with their money? Brentford and Palace -- two London based clubs with at least a modicum of ambition and capital sit as assets waiting to be levered too albeit FFP starts to bite any major ambition.

All these clubs will have ups and downs, but never again will Utd have one competitor at a time. The monopoly/duopoly has been shattered for good.

In short, no objective observer would look at their current failures in a one-club vacuum . . . but they do! Here's how I know: there's no way on EARTH the Glazers proforma 7th place or whatever as a potential outcome when they run their anticipated cash flow and earnings models. If they did, they'd have sold the club a few weeks back in an instant. It's not just the delusion in their past and present that's at issue -- it's delusion about their future, a future in which they have better-financed, better-managed business organiz(s)ations in their own league which have and will continue to translate into better pitch performance for an extended period. Only they are so far up their own asses ("But . . . but . . . but . . . this is MANCHESTER UNITED we're talking about!") they make decisions based on this wonderful phrase @SkyBlueFlux came up with -- "presumptive exceptionalism."
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Spot-on. United have been so fixated on City (on the pitch and off the pitch with their dirty tricks campaign against us) they have allowed a group of other clubs to overtake them.
 
Lankers said:


I'm not sure if this has been posted before on this thread, but it's a very interesting video by James Lawrence Allcott.
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This is very, very good. I could sort of see it happening but couldn't work out what it was and this explains it perfectly. It also explains why the G/A stuff isn't the best metric to be judging Grealish on at the moment and why Pep loves him so much.
 
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