United Report Loss of £83.6m (Merged)

[J-Bay Blue]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

Ignore the smoke and mirrors operating income is meaningless if you are heamorraging (SP) cash like they are....all you need to know is they are in NEGATIVE cash flow. Normally a business is regarded as 'bankrupt' following 3 accounting periods of negative cash flow.

ie. Cash flow statement = the balance of payments coming into and leaving the business.

Sorry, but I do not agree.

A business is bankrupt when total liabilities exceed total assets - ie owners's equity becomes negative.

3 consecutive accounting periods of net negative cashflow does not consititute bankruptcy, otherwise quite a few clubs would be bankrupt right now.

Negative cash flow is one of a number of financial stress indicators - when coupled to a relatively weak balance sheet (ie United), the alarm bells start to go off.

You are right if you mean that companies do not mostly go bankrupt becasue of accounting losess - they mostly go bankrupt due to cashflow problems - inability to pay creditors when required,

You and I do reach the same conclusion, though - the Scum are in the poo and sinking deeper every year!

 

[Deepest Blue]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

Ignore the smoke and mirrors operating income is meaningless if you are heamorraging (SP) cash like they are....all you need to know is they are in NEGATIVE cash flow. Normally a business is regarded as 'bankrupt' following 3 accounting periods of negative cash flow.

ie. Cash flow statement = the balance of payments coming into and leaving the business.

Sorry, but I do not agree.

A business is bankrupt when total liabilities exceed total assets - ie owners's equity becomes negative.

3 consecutive accounting periods of net negative cashflow does not consititute bankruptcy, otherwise quite a few clubs would be bankrupt right now.

Negative cash flow is one of a number of financial stress indicators - when coupled to a relatively weak balance sheet (ie United), the alarm bells start to go off.

You are right if you mean that companies do not mostly go bankrupt becasue of accounting losess - they mostly go bankrupt due to cashflow problems - inability to pay creditors when required,

You and I do reach the same conclusion, though - the Scum are in the poo and sinking deeper every year!

Yes and it couldn't happen to a nicer club. Hahahahahahhahaahha

 

[J-Bay Blue]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

Operating profit is just an indication of one aspect of how a business performs.

that's an important point.

amateur rags will tell you, they've made 100m profit, it's only the Glazer's who are making them lose money.

that's not how it works. the operating profit doesn't include the amortisations and so forth that every organisation has to write down.

they haven't spent 180m on interest payments.

amongst other things, part of that loss will be writing down the value of the aging squad.

from the headlines it appears they might have broken even, turned a minor profit, without the shocking interest payments.

but if the Glazer's had never arrived, they would still be capitalised on the stock market, which is (more or less) just another form of debt that has to be serviced.

instead of an interest payments, they'd be paying a dividend.

Erm le'ts make that less, shall we?

Debt and equity are NOT the same thing!

Normal (exclude pref shares) shareholders are not guaranteed to be paid a dividend - it depends on the company's dividend policy and the performannce of the company.

Some of the biggest and best companies in the world - especially fast growing companies - have never paid a dividend during their entire existence.

If United were still a listed comany, they would not have to toxic debt structure that they do.

Scum supporters are correct when they whinge that the Glazers have fooked them!

One of my accounting Profs used to tel us "Debt is a sword - Equity is a pillow".

City are financed by equity, United by debt.

Sleep well, fellow blues!

 

[ninjamonkey]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

I'm sure Platini will have it in his little made up rule book that operating profit is the only relevent figure. That way all the debt ridden big clubs that would be excluded from the champions league manage to keep their place whilst anybody spending big to break into the champions league gets shot down. Uniteds operating profit looks very healthy and unfortunately that has little chance of changing. Platini will find a way to overlook all the debt that allowed them to produce operating profit figures like that in the first place.

 

[persvenality cult]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

that's an important point.

amateur rags will tell you, they've made 100m profit, it's only the Glazer's who are making them lose money.

that's not how it works. the operating profit doesn't include the amortisations and so forth that every organisation has to write down.

they haven't spent 180m on interest payments.

amongst other things, part of that loss will be writing down the value of the aging squad.

from the headlines it appears they might have broken even, turned a minor profit, without the shocking interest payments.

but if the Glazer's had never arrived, they would still be capitalised on the stock market, which is (more or less) just another form of debt that has to be serviced.

instead of an interest payments, they'd be paying a dividend.

Erm le'ts make that less, shall we?

Debt and equity are NOT the same thing!

Normal (exclude pref shares) shareholders are not guaranteed to be paid a dividend - it depends on the company's dividend policy and the performannce of the company.

Some of the biggest and best companies in the world - especially fast growing companies - have never paid a dividend during their entire existence.

If United were still a listed comany, they would not have to toxic debt structure that they do.

Scum supporters are correct when they whinge that the Glazers have fooked them!

One of my accounting Profs used to tel us "Debt is a sword - Equity is a pillow".

City are financed by equity, United by debt.

Sleep well, fellow blues!

fair comment... I guess I don't see it quite as black and white, but you are basically, absolutely, right. not quite sure what I meant... except that they would retain some debt that needed servicing, and have to cover any cost of equity.

 

[kippaxblue76]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

I wonder if they have still got the £80m from Tranny in the bank to spend on players as old whiskey nose keeps saying, have they foook, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha PMSL...

 

[razinho]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

Could someone that is good with numbers possibly post ratios on this? Uni taught me nothing about numbers but everything about ratios :P the figures don't look too good for them, unless their owners are willing to pay off all the debt that they have incurred then it can only get worse.<br /><br />-- Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:26 pm --<br /><br />Could someone that is good with numbers possibly post ratios on this? Uni taught me nothing about numbers but everything about ratios :P the figures don't look too good for them, unless their owners are willing to pay off all the debt that they have incurred then it can only get worse.

 

[laserblue]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

I heard they were paid up front for the AON deal - is that included in the increase on commercial income?

i believe they were paid approx 2 years sponsorship money in advance by aon & that went into last year's accounts.

 

[Ricster]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m

At times like this don't you just lover Red Cafe

Today, 12:49 #4519 (permalink)
Escobar
Poster originally known as Michel04

United is still fucked in the ass by the Glazers, without lube... Not much has changed, and our situation is as shit as ever. If you look at the payments, expenses etc, you clearly see why there is "no value in the market"

Today, 12:55 #4520 (permalink)
towcester_red
Reserve Team Player

Pathetic. I cant wait for Gills pathetic spin on the operating profits and commercial revenue

TICK TOCK

 

[Wexford Blue]

Re: United Report Loss of £83.6m