United Thread 2014/15 (continued)

[redmanc34]

You were talking about investment of their parachute payments et al why didnt you mention him? Because you didnt know. You are trying to revise your position with lies now, well done.

Over 50 posts on here now, i take it you have over 50,000 on RAWK as losing to them is a thousand times more painful and you care so much more about the Scousers than us.

I didn't know about Liebherr? Alright then mate. Na, as you see i'm on the United thread, and I wasn't here to be a WUM or for a slanging match or to abuse and insult people, if I was I would have already done it. I was here for a debate with people, and to be honest so far you've been the only one, and I feel it's been good. You only don't like me because I support United. I don't instantly dislike people cos of who they support, and i'm on this forum cos this club as well as United is local to me, and the part of Manchester I come from is like 80% Blues anyway, so I enjoy speaking to City fans about football.

You should have mentioned him if you knew about him, but you didnt until i did, then all of a sudden you knew all sorts, google is a wonderful tool. I think you are misguided about Southampton and about FFP in general. FFP has created a status quo in the game, you can spin that as stability if you want, but i think the randomness and instability in sport in general is what makes it so great, sure fire way to make something boring is to remove competition or the dreams of teams or individuals.

My sister is a rag, i like reasonable match going rags who can engage their brain and see there is more to football than what happens at Old Trafford and how Old Trafford is effected by any given situation. Your opening post on this forum is the reason why i think you are a deluded fool who regurgitates the propaganda from the swamp as fact when it is anything but fact. I dont dislike you as an individual, I pity you.

I knew about Liebherr back from the old Saints challenge on FM09 I think it was.
I see what you're saying about FFP, but it works both ways as was mentioned earlier. Montpellier won the French League before PSG had investment, that league was unpredictable with the likes of Montpellier, Lyon, Lille, Marseille, Monaco and PSG, all winning it now and again. Now with the investment at PSG it's a one horse race every year. So in that league the investment has actually done the opposite of what everyone believes it will do in England. Maybe that's why Platini pushes this so hard, because he's French and maybe he doesn't like PSG, and you're just collateral damage in regards to that.

I know my first post was a bit intense, as I said though everything I wrote was in reply to what was already wrote on here, as I said to you before, I like to have a debate. Not here for a slanging match or to abuse but I like to debate, and at least that post has engaged you.

 

[redmanc34]

Whilst I’d admire your resilience on the subject to a certain degree here, I cannot fathom why you’d omit players who, regardless of whether they’re out on loan or not, are still Manchester United players.

“Manchester United have the most expensive squad in Premier League history” - That’s a statement of fact, and it is that the media are peddling at the moment.
“Manchester United have the most expensive Premier League team registered in a single season” – That’s what you’re trying to get across here for some reason. I can only assume because you don’t like the aforementioned fact.

Nani, Hernandez, Powell et al are all current Manchester United players, who just happen to be on loan at another club. Just because they’re out on loan does not mean they’re not Manchester United employees, and therefore the fees you paid for these players, whilst you continue to employ them, count in the figures the media are correctly peddling. And as for Falcao – I could understand the want for omitting him as he’s a Monaco employee by principle, however the fact that you paid between £4m & £6m to include him in your squad this season says that’s also to be taken into consideration.

Wind it in, for your own sake.

That's fair enough, but then by the same account we can include Matija Nastasic at £12m, and Alvaro Negredo at £20.6m as his transfer doesn't offically go through until the end of the season, Nani's fee of £13.5m and Nick Powell at £6m, and lets even throw in CHicharito at £6m would still leave you ahead of us. The media were probably peddling that until the end of January as it was true. You bought Bony though, so now you hold that title. Shouldn't always believe the media. I mean you said it yourself the media is all 'pro-Rag'

I don't disagree with that at all, bud.

But there's also Angelo Henriquez - £4m.

BTW - on what planet did you get a fee of £30m for Fernando? He was £12m.

So right back at you bud. You have the most expensively assembled squad in the league.

(By the way - a quick look at my username will tell you I'm not a City fan as you keep alluding to).

Think Fernando and Fernandinho might be mixed up as they're both called Fernando.
Also Henriquez was nowhere near the first team, same reason I don't count players like Rekik for City

 

[redmanc34]

So , by your own reasoning , FFP is inherently unfair because it applies a blanket rule to every club irrespective of their demographics and their ability to raise sponsorship because of an accident of geography and population?
Perhaps those clubs unfortunate enough not to come from big cities or conurbations could move to these areas and become bigger and better as a result - but what an effect that would have on their fans' sense of pride in their local community , eh?

Not at all, but that's just common sense with regards to demographics. If FFP didn't exist, I very much doubt Yeovil would win the league even with mansour at the helm. The demographics go back about 90-100 years, you can't change that. It's like saying football isn't fair because Maribor won't win the Champions League because they're from Slovenia with only 2 million people so they can't find enough good players because they need HG players. Thats just the way it is, shall we change that rule though and then hand out the Champions League trophy to a different club every year cos at least then its fair

Well if it's common sense with regards to demographics then it would surely be common sense to tailor FFP to suit those conditions ,and not just arbitrarily apply it to everyone equally, because ,since you so rightly point out , not everyone is equal ,and you can't change those demographics.
I think this is one of the points that m.Dupont is raising in the courts.

Yeah potentially it would make sense to tailor the rules for each country, but like I mentioned, English clubs having the best TV deal in Europe is basically a way around it. Higher revenues for all clubs, clubs like Bournemouth next season could end up with a higher revenue for the season than say Ajax, and surely with that amount of money Bournemouth are sorted for the next 3-4 seasons. But then it's all relative isn't it, as everyone else in the league gets the same so they're no better off. If it was to be diced out fairer then it would be better that the lower teams actually receive more in TV money, but that's never gonna happen

 

[-nibz-]

i honestly don't know the answer but we all know who i suspect it is, who has broke the british transfer record more times than any other club ? who was the first club to pay £50,000 a week in wages ? £100.000 a week in wages ? £300,000 a week in wages ?
the only clubs to win PL outside Arsenal & United are Blackburn Chelsea & City and all have had to spend millions to do it, so were we all just meant to watch those 2 take it in turns winning it ?
its great for the neutral that its not a 2 horse race and I've never spoke to any fan outside a top 4 side who has a problem with what we have done so do you want us to believe that United fans are being honest when they say its ruining football ? what a load of bollocks.
whats not fair ? they picked our club over theirs ?

I completely agree with you that competition is good, but the Premier League is run poorly for me anyway, i'm not saying what you're doing is ruining foorball or unfair, but the competition should have never got the stage it's got to where it was a 2 horse race just like you said. I honestly believe if FFP had come in 15-20 years ago, it actually would have been more even. Which is why it will be a good thing in the long run. If it was there 20 years ago, then United have to make a choice between expanding a 40,000 seater Old Trafford, or buying a new player or two. Small things like that believe it or not could have changed the equality of the division back then. I actually think it will be more competitive in the long run, but just like when you invest in something it takes time. You invested in that facility this year, so you're not expecting to be producing a conveyor belt of Messi's every year, but it goves you a better chance of producing players and the standard will increase over time. The same goes with FFP

Cant the mods ban this fucking rag c**t as hes just boring the arse out of everybody with his so called facts which are basically just rag bullshit....fuck off you rag twat

No need to. If he digs anymore, he'll end up on a Melbourne forum.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

I didn't know about Liebherr? Alright then mate. Na, as you see i'm on the United thread, and I wasn't here to be a WUM or for a slanging match or to abuse and insult people, if I was I would have already done it. I was here for a debate with people, and to be honest so far you've been the only one, and I feel it's been good. You only don't like me because I support United. I don't instantly dislike people cos of who they support, and i'm on this forum cos this club as well as United is local to me, and the part of Manchester I come from is like 80% Blues anyway, so I enjoy speaking to City fans about football.

You should have mentioned him if you knew about him, but you didnt until i did, then all of a sudden you knew all sorts, google is a wonderful tool. I think you are misguided about Southampton and about FFP in general. FFP has created a status quo in the game, you can spin that as stability if you want, but i think the randomness and instability in sport in general is what makes it so great, sure fire way to make something boring is to remove competition or the dreams of teams or individuals.

My sister is a rag, i like reasonable match going rags who can engage their brain and see there is more to football than what happens at Old Trafford and how Old Trafford is effected by any given situation. Your opening post on this forum is the reason why i think you are a deluded fool who regurgitates the propaganda from the swamp as fact when it is anything but fact. I dont dislike you as an individual, I pity you.

I knew about Liebherr back from the old Saints challenge on FM09 I think it was.
I see what you're saying about FFP, but it works both ways as was mentioned earlier. Montpellier won the French League before PSG had investment, that league was unpredictable with the likes of Montpellier, Lyon, Lille, Marseille, Monaco and PSG, all winning it now and again. Now with the investment at PSG it's a one horse race every year. So in that league the investment has actually done the opposite of what everyone believes it will do in England. Maybe that's why Platini pushes this so hard, because he's French and maybe he doesn't like PSG, and you're just collateral damage in regards to that.

I know my first post was a bit intense, as I said though everything I wrote was in reply to what was already wrote on here, as I said to you before, I like to have a debate. Not here for a slanging match or to abuse but I like to debate, and at least that post has engaged you.

A bit intense? It was like it was written by the rag propaganda machine, it showed very little self awareness, a trait all to common with the followers of your team.

I wrote this before regarding FFP: Platini thought up the idea, it was because you played Chelsea in the CL final and had a combined debt of over £1.25 billion, the idea was to limit the amount of debt that clubs could incur, however, due to G14 clubs rejecting it out of hand and threatening a breakaway, Uefa relented and bastardised the regulations to be all about revenue and not being able to spend above that, whilst conveniently ignoring debt entirely as clubs like you, Chelsea, Arsenal, Inter, AC, Juve, Real all had eye watering debts. What the FFP regulations therefore did was ensure the clubs with the largest income could spend the most, thus maintaining the status quo, that is cartel creation. Just because we have forced our way in and are part of the club now, it doesnt make it right. I have friends who are fans of clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Spurs and others, I would love them to go through what i have been through recently with City, but because of the G14 clubs fearing their futures at the top of the game were in jeopardy, they created a situation where they wont be able to. Funny now that some of the G14 clubs are being fucked over by FFP, there are grumblings that its unfair.

Added to that what sort of businessman (i think we can agree football is a business) isnt allowed to invest in their own business to try and expand and improve it? Its anti capitalist in a capitalist world. As has been said the big 5 created this situation, those 5 clubs along with the Sky investment made the PL ripe for the likes of Sheikh Mansour or Abramovich to get invovled, when small fish become bigger, the really big fish become more interested in them, its the way of the world. No point bitching about it or trying to stifle it. All to often City are pointed at and said its wrong that we have spent so much, the premise is all wrong, the question that should be asked is why did City have to spend that much to compete? The Sky 4 monopoly of CL money for over a decade meant they had around £300-400m more than the rest of the league so to catch up even more than that had to be spent, when inflation is taken into consideration, added to the fact that we were trying to spend before FFP regulations kicked in. I dont believe FFP is an anti Manchester City regulation, unlike some City fans. I do believe its anti another Manchester City though and that to me is all wrong. It my opinion that every fan deserves to have the dream of being taken over by a billionaire, we support our teams from loyalty, that doesnt mean we dont want to win and what is best for our club, even the most cold hearted hater must admit Sheikh Mansour has been good for City.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Not at all, but that's just common sense with regards to demographics. If FFP didn't exist, I very much doubt Yeovil would win the league even with mansour at the helm. The demographics go back about 90-100 years, you can't change that. It's like saying football isn't fair because Maribor won't win the Champions League because they're from Slovenia with only 2 million people so they can't find enough good players because they need HG players. Thats just the way it is, shall we change that rule though and then hand out the Champions League trophy to a different club every year cos at least then its fair

Well if it's common sense with regards to demographics then it would surely be common sense to tailor FFP to suit those conditions ,and not just arbitrarily apply it to everyone equally, because ,since you so rightly point out , not everyone is equal ,and you can't change those demographics.
I think this is one of the points that m.Dupont is raising in the courts.

Yeah potentially it would make sense to tailor the rules for each country, but like I mentioned, English clubs having the best TV deal in Europe is basically a way around it. Higher revenues for all clubs, clubs like Bournemouth next season could end up with a higher revenue for the season than say Ajax, and surely with that amount of money Bournemouth are sorted for the next 3-4 seasons. But then it's all relative isn't it, as everyone else in the league gets the same so they're no better off. If it was to be diced out fairer then it would be better that the lower teams actually receive more in TV money, but that's never gonna happen

Well that's odd!
On page 247 you replied to Mac from Spain that the unfair distribution of the TV money in that country had no relevance to FFP.
Now you tell us that increased tv revenues is a way around the rules which I think was the point he was making.
With their tv deals the two Spanish Giants have enriched themselves at the expense of the other clubs.
So in effect Barca and Real Madrid have found a way around the rules by being huge and negotiating a disproportionate tv deal and thereby in effect have told the rest of the clubs in la liga to fight for the crumbs falling from the table ,and you said it had nothing to do with FFP. now you tell us it does.
The distribution of the TV money may be more equitable here but it patently isn't in Spain enabling two clubs to cement their place at the top, and ensuring perpetuation of the status quo.
Another example of the unfairness and inequality of a system designed to create a "level playing field"

 

[malg]

^^^ great post.

 

[redmanc34]

You should have mentioned him if you knew about him, but you didnt until i did, then all of a sudden you knew all sorts, google is a wonderful tool. I think you are misguided about Southampton and about FFP in general. FFP has created a status quo in the game, you can spin that as stability if you want, but i think the randomness and instability in sport in general is what makes it so great, sure fire way to make something boring is to remove competition or the dreams of teams or individuals.

My sister is a rag, i like reasonable match going rags who can engage their brain and see there is more to football than what happens at Old Trafford and how Old Trafford is effected by any given situation. Your opening post on this forum is the reason why i think you are a deluded fool who regurgitates the propaganda from the swamp as fact when it is anything but fact. I dont dislike you as an individual, I pity you.

I knew about Liebherr back from the old Saints challenge on FM09 I think it was.
I see what you're saying about FFP, but it works both ways as was mentioned earlier. Montpellier won the French League before PSG had investment, that league was unpredictable with the likes of Montpellier, Lyon, Lille, Marseille, Monaco and PSG, all winning it now and again. Now with the investment at PSG it's a one horse race every year. So in that league the investment has actually done the opposite of what everyone believes it will do in England. Maybe that's why Platini pushes this so hard, because he's French and maybe he doesn't like PSG, and you're just collateral damage in regards to that.

I know my first post was a bit intense, as I said though everything I wrote was in reply to what was already wrote on here, as I said to you before, I like to have a debate. Not here for a slanging match or to abuse but I like to debate, and at least that post has engaged you.

A bit intense? It was like it was written by the rag propaganda machine, it showed very little self awareness, a trait all to common with the followers of your team.

I wrote this before regarding FFP: Platini thought up the idea, it was because you played Chelsea in the CL final and had a combined debt of over £1.25 billion, the idea was to limit the amount of debt that clubs could incur, however, due to G14 clubs rejecting it out of hand and threatening a breakaway, Uefa relented and bastardised the regulations to be all about revenue and not being able to spend above that, whilst conveniently ignoring debt entirely as clubs like you, Chelsea, Arsenal, Inter, AC, Juve, Real all had eye watering debts. What the FFP regulations therefore did was ensure the clubs with the largest income could spend the most, thus maintaining the status quo, that is cartel creation. Just because we have forced our way in and are part of the club now, it doesnt make it right. I have friends who are fans of clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Spurs and others, I would love them to go through what i have been through recently with City, but because of the G14 clubs fearing their futures at the top of the game were in jeopardy, they created a situation where they wont be able to. Funny now that some of the G14 clubs are being fucked over by FFP, there are grumblings that its unfair.

Added to that what sort of businessman (i think we can agree football is a business) isnt allowed to invest in their own business to try and expand and improve it? Its anti capitalist in a capitalist world. As has been said the big 5 created this situation, those 5 clubs along with the Sky investment made the PL ripe for the likes of Sheikh Mansour or Abramovich to get invovled, when small fish become bigger, the really big fish become more interested in them, its the way of the world. No point bitching about it or trying to stifle it. All to often City are pointed at and said its wrong that we have spent so much, the premise is all wrong, the question that should be asked is why did City have to spend that much to compete? The Sky 4 monopoly of CL money for over a decade meant they had around £300-400m more than the rest of the league so to catch up even more than that had to be spent, when inflation is taken into consideration, added to the fact that we were trying to spend before FFP regulations kicked in. I dont believe FFP is an anti Manchester City regulation, unlike some City fans. I do believe its anti another Manchester City though and that to me is all wrong. It my opinion that every fan deserves to have the dream of being taken over by a billionaire, we support our teams from loyalty, that doesnt mean we dont want to win and what is best for our club, even the most cold hearted hater must admit Sheikh Mansour has been good for City.

I completely agree that football is a business, but what happens to the business that constantly incurs losses, eventually it ceases to exist. I understand you're balancing the books now but that was you for the past 4-5 seasons but you had Mansour there to sort out the deficit. Isn't that a dangerous precedent to set as not everyone is as reliable as Mansour. Malaga for example, Al-Thani is a billionaire, he just stopped investing, Malaga failed to pay their players, and got a fine from UEFA and a ban, but it could have been worse. As I said Mansour is reliable so that it seems very unlikely that he will do that, but at the same time if FFP is encouraging clubs to live within their means that it's a case of insurance surely against investors who stop investing. As I mentioned earlier, that happened all the time in Spain and still does. 3 weeks ago Cartagena v Lucena, players staged a protest, they haven't been paid in 3 months, both clubs. And both clubs have been taken over by wealthy investors who have broken promises. And I can see then why they want clubs to be more financially stable.

The point you make about City having to spend so much to compete, I do completely agree with that, I don't think the Premier League personally is that good, I think it's poorly run, commercial, stale atmospheres, overrated and overpaid players. And the point you made is all to do with that, as we've ended up with too much of an inequality in income, but I honestly believe if FFP had come into effect 20 years ago, there's no way United and Arsenal could have dominated like they did, and maybe it's too late to rectify that, I think now the league is at the stage now where it's eating itself akin to Serie A in the 90's after their TV boom during the channel 4 days. And it'll sort of gradually fade away over the next 5 years and it'll be La Ligas turn or something

 

[redmanc34]

Well if it's common sense with regards to demographics then it would surely be common sense to tailor FFP to suit those conditions ,and not just arbitrarily apply it to everyone equally, because ,since you so rightly point out , not everyone is equal ,and you can't change those demographics.
I think this is one of the points that m.Dupont is raising in the courts.

Yeah potentially it would make sense to tailor the rules for each country, but like I mentioned, English clubs having the best TV deal in Europe is basically a way around it. Higher revenues for all clubs, clubs like Bournemouth next season could end up with a higher revenue for the season than say Ajax, and surely with that amount of money Bournemouth are sorted for the next 3-4 seasons. But then it's all relative isn't it, as everyone else in the league gets the same so they're no better off. If it was to be diced out fairer then it would be better that the lower teams actually receive more in TV money, but that's never gonna happen

Well that's odd!
On page 247 you replied to Mac from Spain that the unfair distribution of the TV money in that country had no relevance to FFP.
Now you tell us that increased tv revenues is a way around the rules which I think was the point he was making.
With their tv deals the two Spanish Giants have enriched themselves at the expense of the other clubs.
So in effect Barca and Real Madrid have found a way around the rules by being huge and negotiating a disproportionate tv deal and thereby in effect have told the rest of the clubs in la liga to fight for the crumbs falling from the table ,and you said it had nothing to do with FFP. now you tell us it does.
The distribution of the TV money may be more equitable here but it patently isn't in Spain enabling two clubs to cement their place at the top, and ensuring perpetuation of the status quo.
Another example of the unfairness and inequality of a system designed to create a "level playing field"

I don't think so in Spain as it's always been like that with TV even before FFP, whereas I think the Premier League have cottoned onto the fact that there's only 2 clubs who could compete within their means in Europe if TV money stayed the same and that would probably be United and Arsenal. So they've managed to get this massive TV deal to help everyone else compete in Europe as it is somewhere where we are struggling as a league.

As I say I don't think it's relevant so much in Spain as that situation has been going on long before FFP. You also have to remember Real Madrid are essentially paid for by the Spanish taxpayer anyway, which says something I suppose about corruption over there

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

Redmanc, why is it everytime you sign someone they automatically become ugly as fuck?



Genuine question.