United Thread 2014/15 (continued)

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

No thats how much he did invest. You can invest £90m a season to help with running costs under FFP ruling

Not under the football league rules you cant. Try again.

Blackburn, Leeds and Forest all exceeded the maximum permitted deviation of £8m - consisting of a maximum adjusted operating loss of £3m plus a further maximum of £5m of shareholder investment - during the 2013/14 playing season. Each club will have the opportunity to have its FFP embargo lifted at the end of the season by demonstrating that it has stayed within the maximum permitted deviation of £6m (£3m operating loss plus £3m shareholder investment) for the 2014/15 season.

Yeah the £90m was in reply to how much you can inject in the PL, not the football league, thats what I was talking about there.

So you agree you were talking shit when you said he could invest £15m a year without any issue at all, when they were in league 1 and the Championship?

 

[redmanc34]

Not under the football league rules you cant. Try again.

Blackburn, Leeds and Forest all exceeded the maximum permitted deviation of £8m - consisting of a maximum adjusted operating loss of £3m plus a further maximum of £5m of shareholder investment - during the 2013/14 playing season. Each club will have the opportunity to have its FFP embargo lifted at the end of the season by demonstrating that it has stayed within the maximum permitted deviation of £6m (£3m operating loss plus £3m shareholder investment) for the 2014/15 season.

Yeah the £90m was in reply to how much you can inject in the PL, not the football league, thats what I was talking about there.

So you agree you were talking shit when you said he could invest £15m a year without any issue at all, when they were in league 1 and the Championship?

Na because under FFP, there's no limits onto what an individual can invest or spend in League 1 or 2 due to the SCMP. The only ruling that exists below the Championship is that you're limited to spending a % of your revenue on wages. In League 2 its 55% I believe and in League 1 it's 60%. But there's no limits on revenue in either in those 2 divisions under FFP, so the owners of clubs can invest as much or as little as they like into their club and it counts as revenue. So under FFP, Liebherr would have been fine to invest £75m in one go at Southampton in League 1 if he fancied, it wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

He's full of shit, no account taken for the fact that Markus Liebherr a Swiss billionaire bankrolled the Saints back to the Prem, he took them out of administration, they outspent everyone when in league 1, had the biggest squad and then invested in the first team again when they were in the Championship, whilst also investing in their youth system. Without him they would be nowhere near where they are today, good luck to them, I hope they continue to punch above their weight in the PL, however without significant investment in the first team, they wont break into the top 4 teams. Under the current FFP regulations I doubt Southampton would have been able to invest as much as they did, which is ironic that the thick rag is using them as an example for 'doing it right'.

Just this.
Southampton , as he points out are a "mid -sized " club with average 33,000 crowd , so therefore their revenue streams , which FFP dictates they must spend within, are not that big. They cannot attract the kind of sponsorship deals that regular CL participants can , and their gate receipts are not huge.
This leaves a very important stream for them- selling off their best players to the big clubs ( and I include City in that group , even though we haven't actually bought anyone from them) who come calling with their almost unrestricted spending - protected by FFP .
They lost a whole swathe of top class players last summer and did a good job this season in replacing them , but how long can they be expected to run a very successful academy for the benefit of arsenal and the rags? Eventually the well will run dry.
Because of FFP they have to sell players to clubs whose spending is protected by FFP, and know that they will never get to the title or the CL.
Seems fair.

I think a club like that could get to the Champions League though, and then from that you can build yourself up a lot more. To be honest, with outside investment and all that there can only be one winner of the title. And there's a limited amount of trophies to be won. Most fans know that and they support their team regardless because of a sense of pride they have in their local community, and they wanna be entertained, and just see their teams progress. I haven't met one Burnley fan yet kicking off because they won't win the Premier League, there's what 3/4 teams kicking off about FFP from i've read here, and thats Everton, Villa and City. It doesn't exactly stifle competition as there can be one winner anyway, and unless you turn the league into some kind of American style competition with a salary cap and draft, then there will always be a pecking order, with or without FFP.

How can they get to the CL ? They cannot invest in the quality of players needed to attain that level , and when they raise them through the academy they sell them off to support their revenue streams, and they cannot under FFP attract the size of inward investment required, and they cannot raise large sponsorship deals because they are not high profile enough because they are not in the CL. Can you you see a vicious circle there?
You're right - there can only be one winner of the title - but why should there be a limited amount of teams capable of winning it - especially if the criteria for winning it are determined by the spending power of those who are already in a position to win it? If you are not already in that position , then FFP has decreed that you never will be .
I like your idea that supporters of clubs who cannot win anything should just be happy with a sense of pride in their local community while they watch the big clubs Hoover up the trophies! Not at all patronising! "And just see their teams progress" - just how do you propose that they do that ? Buy expensive players - no they can't afford it under FFP ! Bring players through the academy? Good idea -but like at Southampton , watch them go off to "big" clubs.
Yep, there will always be a "pecking order" and FFP has made sure that it is now set in stone.

 

[everythingchangesbutblue]

Here are the reasons this rag twat is posting on here.

They beat us and are currently above us and the twat wants to lord it over us. There is a reason he posted it this week and not at anytime over the last 2 years.

It's the sole reason 99% of their fans even support the vile cesspool. To have sort sort of success in life

Weak minded fucknuggets the lot of em.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

Yeah the £90m was in reply to how much you can inject in the PL, not the football league, thats what I was talking about there.

So you agree you were talking shit when you said he could invest £15m a year without any issue at all, when they were in league 1 and the Championship?

Na because under FFP, there's no limits onto what an individual can invest or spend in League 1 or 2 due to the SCMP. The only ruling that exists below the Championship is that you're limited to spending a % of your revenue on wages. In League 2 its 55% I believe and in League 1 it's 60%. But there's no limits on revenue in either in those 2 divisions under FFP, so the owners of clubs can invest as much or as little as they like into their club and it counts as revenue. So under FFP, Liebherr would have been fine to invest £75m in one go at Southampton in League 1 if he fancied, it wouldn't have been an issue.

So now he is investing £75m in one go and not as you stated £15m a year without any issue at all.

Again revising your position when you are pulled up on it. I'm sure you will change your point of view again within a couple of posts. Still no reply as to why you failed to mention Markus Liebherr when you first started talking about Southampton, or didnt the google article you first use mention him?

 

[redmanc34]

Just this.
Southampton , as he points out are a "mid -sized " club with average 33,000 crowd , so therefore their revenue streams , which FFP dictates they must spend within, are not that big. They cannot attract the kind of sponsorship deals that regular CL participants can , and their gate receipts are not huge.
This leaves a very important stream for them- selling off their best players to the big clubs ( and I include City in that group , even though we haven't actually bought anyone from them) who come calling with their almost unrestricted spending - protected by FFP .
They lost a whole swathe of top class players last summer and did a good job this season in replacing them , but how long can they be expected to run a very successful academy for the benefit of arsenal and the rags? Eventually the well will run dry.
Because of FFP they have to sell players to clubs whose spending is protected by FFP, and know that they will never get to the title or the CL.
Seems fair.

I think a club like that could get to the Champions League though, and then from that you can build yourself up a lot more. To be honest, with outside investment and all that there can only be one winner of the title. And there's a limited amount of trophies to be won. Most fans know that and they support their team regardless because of a sense of pride they have in their local community, and they wanna be entertained, and just see their teams progress. I haven't met one Burnley fan yet kicking off because they won't win the Premier League, there's what 3/4 teams kicking off about FFP from i've read here, and thats Everton, Villa and City. It doesn't exactly stifle competition as there can be one winner anyway, and unless you turn the league into some kind of American style competition with a salary cap and draft, then there will always be a pecking order, with or without FFP.

How can they get to the CL ? They cannot invest in the quality of players needed to attain that level , and when they raise them through the academy they sell them off to support their revenue streams, and they cannot under FFP attract the size of inward investment required, and they cannot raise large sponsorship deals because they are not high profile enough because they are not in the CL. Can you you see a vicious circle there?
You're right - there can only be one winner of the title - but why should there be a limited amount of teams capable of winning it - especially if the criteria for winning it are determined by the spending power of those who are already in a position to win it? If you are not already in that position , then FFP has decreed that you never will be .
I like your idea that supporters of clubs who cannot win anything should just be happy with a sense of pride in their local community while they watch the big clubs Hoover up the trophies! Not at all patronising! "And just see their teams progress" - just how do you propose that they do that ? Buy expensive players - no they can't afford it under FFP ! Bring players through the academy? Good idea -but like at Southampton , watch them go off to "big" clubs.
Yep, there will always be a "pecking order" and FFP has made sure that it is now set in stone.

I'm not trying to be patronising but most clubs know that, and a lot of the time it isn't even to do with investment, it's to do with demographics. If you're from a city you 95% of the time will do better and win more because, 1.you have a larger pool of players to choose from for your academy, cos of the local population, so you have a higher chance of producing high quality players 2.bigger companies are based in cities and they are the one's who carry more financial clout when it comes to sponsorhip, so you can attract bigger commercial investment anyway, from the large local companies (that is more relevent before the globalisation of the Prem as most clubs have foreign sponsors now anyway) 3.like point 1, you have a larger local population which means you have bigger crowds, which again means more money.

Again I understand what you say about Southampton, but if recruitment is good then you use the sale of those players as a stepping stone rather than a negative. Look at the replacements they've found, and if they did that again why couldn't they break into the top 4?

Those are things that will never change, no matter what. Someone like Yeovil could never win the Premier League even if they had your owners, for basically all those reasons. How the league now is basically how it logically should be, with the exception of Villa, Newcastle and Everton who should be higher up the table.

 

[redmanc34]

So you agree you were talking shit when you said he could invest £15m a year without any issue at all, when they were in league 1 and the Championship?

Na because under FFP, there's no limits onto what an individual can invest or spend in League 1 or 2 due to the SCMP. The only ruling that exists below the Championship is that you're limited to spending a % of your revenue on wages. In League 2 its 55% I believe and in League 1 it's 60%. But there's no limits on revenue in either in those 2 divisions under FFP, so the owners of clubs can invest as much or as little as they like into their club and it counts as revenue. So under FFP, Liebherr would have been fine to invest £75m in one go at Southampton in League 1 if he fancied, it wouldn't have been an issue.

So now he is investing £75m in one go and not as you stated £15m a year without any issue at all.

Again revising your position when you are pulled up on it. I'm sure you will change your point of view again within a couple of posts. Still no reply as to why you failed to mention Markus Liebherr when you first started talking about Southampton, or didnt the google article you first use mention him?

I'm not at all. Liebherr invested £75m over 5 seasons, it doesn't say how much he invested per season, i just divided it up. But bearing in mind he's a smart businessman and he saved the club from administration in League 1, he would have also been aware of FFP now, so probably would have worked out a plan of how best to invest his money, and seeing as though there are no sanctions in League 1, it would be logical for him to invest it then rather than wait til the Championship and get penalised for it.
The point you made was that Liebherr couldn't have done what he did under FFP. But he could have done. And Liebherr didn't get a mention at first as I was talking about the Saints in 13/14-14/15

 

[Dicko69]

If ffp stays as it is right now, I'd be willing to bet everything I own including the clothes I've got on and all future earnings that no team outside the current top 5 will win the prem in my lifetime. Doesn't sound very fair to me. Let's face it, if it wasn't for our owners I would of prob lived my entire life without seeing city win a trophy. I was born in December 76, I was 35 when we won fa cup. it's possible we might of won a cup one day, but a league title? No chance. If villa don't beat arsenal, what are the chances of winning a trophy in a lot of their supporters lifetimes? Slim. What are villas chances of winning the league ever again? Zero.

I doubt that, things just go in phases, Liverpool in the 80's, United now. Look at how you were doing before Mansour, and even Shinawatra, you got yourself back in the Premier League, had some decent players coming through and were playing in the UEFA Cup weren't you. You have an actual hardcore fanbase of what 38-42,000. So for me you could built upon what you already had, probably could have won a UEFA Cup or Europa League, then you don't know after that how things could have worked out.

Thanks for the reply, I won't resort to name calling, but I totally disagree with that reply, and a lot of other things your saying. We probably couldn't win the Europa league with the squad we got now never mind the squad we would have without our last 2 owners, we'd prob still have Dunne at the back, we'd of had to sell any good players we had, we were very close to going into administration. If not for the shiek do you think we would still have kompany Hart or zabba? Liverpool in the 80s with the littlewoods money bought all the best UK players because they had the most money, utd then had the most money, bought all the best players. Now you just don't like it because other clubs can spend as much as you, or God forbid more than you and finish above you, so gill has helped to tailor the rules so that you can outspend everyone and reclaim what you perceive as your Devine right to be at the top for ever and always.
Do you honestly think with the current ffp that any outside the current top 5 will win the league ever again?
Sunderland are big, 50k+ hard-core fan base, fighting relegation, will never win the league, fact.
Newcastle, Everton, villa I could go on will never win the league unless a mega rich owner pumped 100s of millions into the club, but are now not allowed, because then they could challenge your precious club and you don't like that.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

.

 

[Bill]

Well 46 posts in 4 days, not bad for someone who couldn't give a flying fuck about our little club. I'd hate to see what would happen if this idiot ever became 'obsessed' with us!

was thinking the same. obsessed ****.