United Thread - 2022/23

[I'm With Stupid]

No doubt losing Pep would be huge, but it’s worth noting we won things under Mancini and Pellegrini. So it’s not like he took a club treading water and made us into a winning side. We’ve definitely been more consistent in winning leagues under pep, but I think that also coincides with the club growing and growing too, and yes Pep plays a big part in that too.

Ferguson was a great manager, but even though he was still having some success at the end, it was more than obvious that the league was getting stronger and clubs were able to compete and ready to overtake them, so their dominance was coming to an end anyway whether he stayed or not, that’s why I think he got out. Left a great legacy and smart enough to know when to get out.

I think if Pep were to leave, we’re in a stronger position right through the club than Utd were at the end of Ferguson’s time. Of course we shouldn’t take anything for granted though.

Ferguson actually started this short-termism that has cost them. There was no succession planning at the end of his career, he was just squeezing every last drop out of their legends. When you look at his final season, the squad looks great on paper: Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra still there, Carrick, Giggs and Scholes in midfield, Rooney and van Persie up front. But then you realise that all of those were about 108 years old and on their last hurrah. The next season, they only had 2 players who played over 30 games in the league (and one of those was the goalie) as their older players inevitably got injuries or had to limit their playing time, making them rely on the next generation of 'talent' more (Jones, Smalling, Evans, Young, Welbeck, Januzai, Kagawa, Fletcher, Valencia, Mata, Fernandez, etc). At that point, there was already years of underinvestment in the sort of long-term talents they needed, in a way that wasn't the case in the 2000s, when they spent big on young prospects like Ronaldo, Ferdinand and Rooney. I reckon it was a conscious decision by a manager who was more concerned with his own legacy than the future of the club.

We could do the same thing. If we stopped investing in the next generation of talents, but Pep stayed, it would be years before we realised that we needed a complete overhaul because he'd keep us competitive. But thankfully, we have people in the club whose job it is to think long term, rather than leaving it all up to a manager whose job it is to get results from week to week.

 

[bluetonium]

Vinny coming back to England and Burnley could be part of that plan.
I see a plan possibly with Gerrard at Villa eventually being manager of Liverpool.

I'm still hoping they give it to Bernard Matthews, so when they next choke in a title race we can call them Bernard Matthews's Chicken Dippers.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Vinny coming back to England and Burnley could be part of that plan.
I see a plan possibly with Gerrard at Villa eventually being manager of Liverpool.

People always say stuff like this, but is that not just the sort of nostalgia that gets clubs into shit in the first place? People have said the same thing about Vieira or Arteta, but none of them should be in the running for the City job just because they came through the ranks here. We need a world class manager, so they need to show they can do a world class job first. For Arteta in particular, that means winning the Europa League or getting into the latter stages of the CL (and getting into the CL first).

 

[Bluesince1979]

As funny as Uniteds demise is there are of course plently of lessons for City to take note of. Pep is as big to City as fergie was to them and one day he will go and that will be a very sad day and uncertain time for the club. Hopefully City have a plan in place for what will be a difficult transition.

Weve no idea obviously but id like to think that the planning is already in place

 

[Bluesince1979]

People always say stuff like this, but is that not just the sort of nostalgia that gets clubs into shit in the first place? People have said the same thing about Vieira or Arteta, but none of them should be in the running for the City job just because they came through the ranks here. We need a world class manager, so they need to show they can do a world class job first. For Arteta in particular, that means winning the Europa League or getting into the latter stages of the CL (and getting into the CL first).

When people speak of arteta coming back, i dont see it. Hes more an arsenal man than a city man. As long as hes doing ok at arsenal he’ll stay there

 

[manimanc]

There is literally nothing he’s said there that’s remotely fishy and he’s completely correct.

Unlike United with Busby, we should learn lessons from the past and not make the same mistakes both before and when Pep eventually goes - which he will one day.

We need to have a plan, which I fully expect we do, because, unlike United, we’re not run by idiots.

Like I said, what has pep leaving got anything to do with them tosspots being crap at this precise moment? Totally irrelevant, not worth discussing at this minute in time, almost sounds like the tripe the wanker journalists come out with when their red darlings fuck up.

 

[journolud]

We also had one point after nine games tbf!

It was a great point though, probably

 

[waspish]

As funny as Uniteds demise is there are of course plently of lessons for City to take note of. Pep is as big to City as fergie was to them and one day he will go and that will be a very sad day and uncertain time for the club. Hopefully City have a plan in place for what will be a difficult transition.

The difference is us fans realise once pep leaves we will drop back into pack but as long as we still compete for leagues and cups we will be fine..

 

[Gingers Dad]

Really good points them Foggy, he definitely was a "complete control" kind of dictator wasn't he!

He was also a remnant from a time gone by too though, when all managers ran the clubs from top to toe. In the 80s, English clubs were run the same way they probably were in the 1920s - manager ran everything. It was only as the foreign managers came in that we saw the structure of clubs change and job titles change. He got lucky that he was never had to work with DoFs etc because he had the money, the birth of the PL and he won trophies. He ran it all. Strangely, the club never saw that as a problem though but it became absolutely apparent as soon as he left what a mess the club was in. That's why Moyes shouldn't have been allowed to bring his own men in, at the expense of Fergies. You wouldn't go into Barclays Bank and sack the team below the board who've worked there for years would you?

I completely agree about the financials though. They are now going to realise how hard it was for Everton, Spurs, City, Leicester etc to get into the CL without spending a LOT of money with the right manager. It's a matter of time now till someone like Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea/Liverpool or us put in a bid for their players and that player will leave because they need to play CL football. They aren't the team they once were. It's now 10 years since they last won the league and I can't see them winning it for another 10 at the minute.

Anyone can spend money but only the right manager will get you there. At this moment, Ten Haag looks like a shocking gamble. He's going to have to earn his money, rapid. I don't remember a manager at a 'top club' getting off to such a bad, bad start as this. It's almost as if the players think he is a bigger bell end than Rangnick!

Anyone who watched that yesterday couldn't help but be reminded of us in the 90s. At least we usually had some hope after a couple of games mind!

utd have been very clever in their recruitment policy not to sign any players that a CL club would want.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Like I said, what has pep leaving got anything to do with them tosspots being crap at this precise moment? Totally irrelevant, not worth discussing at this minute in time, almost sounds like the tripe the wanker journalists come out with when their red darlings fuck up.

It’s not totally irrelevant for the reasons I took the time to outline. Are you struggling to understand what I’ve posted?