United To Struggle For Top 4?

[IrishMacca]

Hows that exactly, hows going to a few Man U games, mostly City ones, about 3 with friends one because of a Stag, and the others for a birthday, and one was Barca Man U game.
Roy Keane is Roy Keane. The tickets were there a big group of friends were going, a massive session was to be had, Roy Keane is an Irish legend and some lines get blurred along the way, when it comes to things like that, same way ye'll cheer Rooney on every time. And I went as a Celtic fan more then anything, jersey and all.

so you are a plastic any team supporter then!

Oh you know what I've tried to be polite, but I'm sick of justifing every thing I say. Roy Keane is Irish, he's Cork for that matter and there's loyalty to that. I was brought to a lot of Celtic games with my uncle when I was younger, most Irish fans are Celtic fans as well, and that's the way it is.

 

[samharris]

A massive session was to be had eh..I bet you and your buds are laughing hysterically at our attempts to fathom you out...

 

[depps]

id give irishmacca the benefit of the doubt by saying he's arguing for the sake of arguing. But then again, that would make ME the rag :/


Tbh, the argument was made in passion that i wud only have detected from a rag mate. Rags see trannaldo as overrated to minimise the blow of his loss, while city always see him as a great footballer but a sad twat too.

IrishMacca does appear to be a big fans of giggs though:

Lads as wrong or right ye think the winner is, the players voted for him, they wanted to honour him, now maybe for other reasons, maybe he wasn't the player of the year but it was the players who all voted in bulk and backed Giggs, mightn't have been the best overall but they probably felt he deserved it in recognition for his milestone that he reached and his service.
I can understand people getting pissed off about if it was anything but the players choice, it's not like a few judges sat in a room and voted unfairly, were talking about the players overall backing Giggs in the majority.

At the end of the day, it's the players decision, and it's not their fault or Giggs or anyone else for that matter, when the votes are taken and who are nominated.

As for this rubbish about turning his back on his country, a bit dramatic isn't it?

 

[cucumberman]

let me add a spice of arrogance here. scum will finish 5th. I see an increase in the number of clubs that can better the rags and if these teams win all against scum, thats 10 losses for them. Im counting the dippers, spuds, arsenal, chelsea to flatten them and us to be in there too.

 

[leewill31]

so you are a plastic any team supporter then!

Oh you know what I've tried to be polite, but I'm sick of justifing every thing I say. Roy Keane is Irish, he's Cork for that matter and there's loyalty to that. I was brought to a lot of Celtic games with my uncle when I was younger, most Irish fans are Celtic fans as well, and that's the way it is.

and the point being that you are not a city fan trying to pretend you are,dont beat around the bush next time and pretend being a blue and calling blues plastics or saying we know nothing about football.

i have no problems with other fans of clubs coming on here and having opinions and contributing but please don't pretend to be a manchester city supporter and slag us for all so having opinions.

 

[leewill31]

A massive session was to be had eh..I bet you and your buds are laughing hysterically at our attempts to fathom you out...

he was sussed straight away m8,

nobody could be so far up the rags arse like he was and get away with it :)

 

[Shegelu]

Def bluetinted glasses my friend & nothin wrong with that!

But the Rags' demise has been predicted season after season, when they have started poorly, and they've won 3 consecutive titles, so you betting against the odds here.

Remember when we did the double on them, it was defeat to us that spurred them to up their game. I'll bet if we beat them in couple of weeks, they will suddenly find their mojo again.

 

[IrishMacca]

Sorry for calling you a fucking idiot by the way, my frustration got the better of me, you are as entitled to your opinion as mine :)

Anyway...

You've got an idiot making ridiculous retarded comments about Man U not making the top 4 which we all know is complete bullshit, and anyone who thinks otherwise can't have seen more then 1 football game in their life.
It's one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a long time and anyone with a brain in their head could tell you that.

We both agree that United will win the league this season, and that them outside the top four isn't going to happen. As I'll explain below, I just think it is down to their manager more than their team.

Ronaldo is incredibly over rated and caused them more harm then good, mainly last season. I hate the lad with a passion, ya he could score goals (that Rooney mainly) set up for him all the time, but he was lazy, didn't defend and didn't work. And that attitude cost Man U a lot.
Him leaving mightn't be the worst thing in the world, while Tevez, he barely played for Man U last season, so him leaving isn't going to have that much on an impact.

So, even if he was lazy and didn't defend (which he actually didn't have to, as a second striker which is essentially what he was), are you saying he cost the team more then the 70 goals he scored, and 30 goals he created? You're saying he cost United 50 goals a season?

Squads win championships, not 1/2 players, and if we go out thinking that we'll get no where. Man U got over the likes of Cantona, Keane, Schmichael..etc leaving and they were all, especially Keane, much better and much more important then Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is ten times that player Cantona and Keane ever were. Cantona is vastly, vastly overrated by United fans as a player. His influence and creativity was good, but in a competition between him and Benjani in today's league, I'd probably choose Benjani. In fact, every single club's fans out there thinks Cantona was vastly overrated, and was remembered more for his personality or antics. It is the same as saying Vinnie Jones was a great defender, and if he played for United, I'm sure they would. Ask around in some other fans forums, seriously.

And as for the comment about them having an ageing team, here we go again, it's bias getting in the way of fact, they don't, they've young players with the exception of Scholes and Giggs, who rarely play these days, and they've a lot of youth coming through. They've pedigree that we could only dream about.

VDS - old
Rio - getting old
Neville - old
Evra - getting old
Brown - getting old
Vidic - getting old
O'Shea - getting old
Scholes - old
Giggs - old
Carrick - getting old
Owen - getting old
Berba - getting old

Number of players in United's squad who are 27 or above: 13
Number of player in United's squad who are 26 or below: 13

Youth coming through at United:
Foster - laughably bad, even united fans don't rate him - also, he's 26, not exactly young
Fabio & Rafael - look like two good young players
Tosic - Can't really say as he hasn't had enough gametime
Gibson - Laughably poor. Fletcher's natural successor
Macheda - looks promising enough.

Also, wtf is 'pedigree', and what bearing does it have on results?

Their squad is very strong and saying that none of the players outside their starting 11 would get on any of the top 4 teams or our team for that matter is again pure nonsense.

Ok, name them.

Squads win titles. Not individuals, not even the first 11. The rotated a lot last season, the one before that and so on and so do all the top teams.

And as for their money, last time I checked they'd spending power, and a lot more then Liverpool or Arsenal, and Man U, again more fact that can't really be argued with is, that they'll either produce young players from their academy or by young players and mold them into superstars.

And anyone who thinks that Man U will finish below 3rd at a stretch either is unbelievably bias or doesn't know the game.

I'm not defending Man U, I'm simply saying that sometimes on this occasion especially bias goes much too far, and common sense gets left behind.

No, you don't understand. They HAVEN'T got any spending power, that's entirely the point. Their debts are literally crippling them. Please see the Deloitte article written about them for real facts/figures/info on this.

Also, you are defending United. Their youth academy is poor since McClair/Ryan took over the reigns.

I'll try my best to answer most of it but I got to get back to work at some point.

Managers don't win games, but I agree that most of their success is down to their manager.

All I'm saying about Ronaldo is that defence wise this season they could benefit from having a player that will work, and which will also free up Rooney no end.

The point about Keane..etc my point was they were massive players and at the time bigger then Ronaldo imo.
Cantona was some character and an excellent player.
And Keane, like I've said above, he's an outstanding leader and captain and an inspiring player. You miss that, even if he's not techincally amazing.

As for their old and getting old players.
Well the getting old comment is a bit out there, every player is getting old and at that stage most players peak.
They've youth coming through, no I couldn't name many but I've had them listed off at me so many times at this stage.
Their pedigree, is their tradition of winning. They have that, we don't.
Ya their in a bit of debt but who isn't.

I'll come back and add more to it in a while but I've to get back to work now. Sorry if it's a bit vague but if this doesn't satisfy you I apologise and will get back to it as soon as I can.

 

[blueinbolton77]

Hell I mean watching Ronaldo infuriates me and could you imagine a Man U fan, he hampered the squad as much as he helped it, and all it takes is for Owen to score one goal and they'll be off imo......<snip>


<.....> And sugesting otherwise isn't being smart, it's comments like that that make us look ridiculous........

Nope, it's when we have united supporters coming on here as "blues", trying to convince themselves that ronaldo was no good. But this makes united supporters look stupid not us.

I'd have Ronaldo at Eastlands tomorrow. Fantastic player if you've ever seen him play and anyone saying otherwise is a total gimp.

Chelsea will win the PL anyway, and I don't really give a monkeys toss where united finish, I hope they stay mid-table all season. They are certainly not the quality they were. I'm sure you feel the same hey IrishMacca?

 

[Braggster]

You think Keane was ever at Ronaldo's level? Great player, but he was never as good as Ronaldo.

Not a chance, techincally Keane had a lot of weak parts of his game, but his presence, attitude, workrate and leadership make him more of a player then Ronaldo has ever been.
Ronaldo will never be a true great player until he learns how to work for it.

Perhaps we define 'work' differently. It's true Ronaldo doesn't track back like Rooney (a point in his favour imo) but he has immense guts, takes the hits, never backs down despite being kicked all the time, risks injury and is fearless in the box, and doesn't care about being humiliated. He keeps going, keeps trying to score/create and never knows when he is beaten.

The man is a tosser, but he's a hell of a player, there's no denying it. And I stand by the fact that he's better than Keane. He carried United almost single-handedly at times, to 3 consecutive titles, 1 champions league win and a losing final. Keane was a great player too, but not as good as Ronaldo, and that's the end of it.

EDIT: I would also point out that the rags' coaching staff, as well as Fabio Capello, have told ROoney to stop wandering around and tracking back too much, implying he doesn't trust his team-mates to get the ball to him up the pitch and that it is hampering his effectiveness. Tranny's unwillingness to defend *helped* the team at times, it stopped the rags getting pinned back too much.