US & Israel attack Iran

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Positing that both the war and Iran closing the Strait are illegal, what difference does that make?

From a legal perspective, quite a bit actually.

 

[WT86]

From a legal perspective, quite a bit actually.

Really? A party is justified in responding to an illegal action with an illegal action?

 

[Don Karleone]

The right time to announce

I don't have my head buried in the sand, so I don't care when it's announced. It was obvious to anyone who looked what WE were doing at the start.

 

[mosssideblue]

I don't have my head buried in the sand, so I don't care when it's announced. It was obvious to anyone who looked what WE were doing at the start.

Nor do i

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Really? A party is justified in responding to an illegal action with an illegal action?

From a common law perspective (both in the UK and the US) the application of force upon another is (prima facie) illegal, but not in circumstances where that force is applied in self defence.

So clearly legal circumstance exist where force that would otherwise be unlawful is not as a consequence of the circumstances that gave rise to it.

This is kindergarten law stuff btw.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I’ve only seen a headline - but wouldn’t he argue that this is in the interests of the British people/defensive as the US will *only* be using the bases to keep the straight open and it will be their forces at risk not ours?

He can argue all he wants, this is a huge mistake imo

 

[BlueRockape]

I’ve only seen a headline - but wouldn’t he argue that this is in the interests of the British people/defensive as the US will *only* be using the bases to keep the straight open and it will be their forces at risk not ours?

It's the civil population that will be at risk in Europe

 

[Gabriel]

On the spectrum of commitment, it’s hardly full-throated endorsement and is probably the bare minimum required to still curry American favour. After all, can the UK really do anything meaningful to prevent the US from dropping its ordinance where it chooses following takeoff? That said, given his braggadocio at PMQs, Starmer had better hope there is no blowback from this announcement.

 

[WT86]

From a common law perspective (both in the UK and the US) the application of force upon another is illegal, but not in circumstances where that force is applied in self defence.

So clearly legal circumstance exist where force that would otherwise be unlawful is not as a consequence of the circumstances that gave rise to it.

This is kindergarten law stuff btw.

In the Strait of Hormuz, the right of transit passage is afforded to all ships and aircraft that transit the strait, a permissive legal right that “shall not be impeded”—even in times of war. All vessels and aircraft—military and civilian—have the legal prerogative to exercise the right of transit passage through the Strait of Hormuz, provided that these ships and aircraft proceed without delay through the Strait of Hormuz, transit in their normal modes of operation, and refrain from using force against any nation bordering the Strait. Although Israel, Iran, and the United States are not parties to UNCLOS, the transit-passage regime for international straits is widely regarded as customary international law and binding on all States. Iran’s actions to block the strait are contrary to both the letter and spirit of UNCLOS and applicable customary international law.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Hormuz Schmormuz.

 

[WT86]

Also the idea that a US-Israeli attack gives Iran a self-defense right to, e.g., attack a Thai oil tanker, as they did last week, is ludicrous. You're either wumming or not much of a lawyer.

 

[bluethrunthru]

as I said the hardest part of a 5 day special operation is the first 6 months

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Also the idea that a US-Israeli attack gives Iran a self-defense right to, e.g., attack a Thai oil tanker, as they did last week, is ludicrous. You're either wumming or not much of a lawyer.

I’ve never claimed to be a lawyer.

 

[metalblue]

Threatening? What is the estimate of how many Iranian civilians the IRGC have killed.

A fair point.

 

[crooky]

Quite amusing that he's only just admitted that the US can fly out of bases in the UK for strikes....

When there's been freely available videos on YouTube of B52s and B1 heavy bombers flying out of Fairford for about 2 weeks now.

One B52 I saw was so 'loaded' with weaponry that the massive bomb bay wasn't enough and it had a number of cruise missiles strapped to it's wings as well!

Edit: I wouldn't surprised if the source image was a screen cap from the video I saw.

Source for the image mentioning Fairford - https://www.armyrecognition.com/new...operation-epic-fury-long-range-strike-posture

 

[bluethrunthru]

Not sure why its needed in a war they have already won



could be a massive fail

 

[Tommy_Catons_Perm]

So Keir Starmer is now allowing offensive bombing? Previously it was restricted to defensive bombing. No difference in the fog of war.

 

[Tommy_Catons_Perm]

Trump said he won the war. Iran said they won the war. Everyone's a winner and they all lived happily after.

 

[Gabriel]

How many troops would be needed to secure a coastline anywhere from 600-1500 miles? How far inland would you need to roll back to prevent attacks on shipping? How long would troops need to be stationed? Turns out bone spurs can’t get you out of all wars.

 

[BobKowalski]

He can argue all he wants, this is a huge mistake imo

Yeah. It doesn’t sit right with me. I get all the arguments about the Strait and the reality of the economic harm it does to the UK, but it was the US that triggered this shit and facilitating them in this war sticks in the throat.