US Politics Thread

[SWP's back]

I couldn't click the "Ignore" button fast enough, LOL.

I think it was a record for me. Read one and a half posts, checked joined date and slightly odd posting style/use of English and decided I wouldn’t be missing much.

 

[Iassel]

I don’t think it’s bold in the slightest. No way Trump will receive more votes than he managed in 2020.

I don’t believe for one second either that Trump is going to increase his voter number - but I expect he will get the same 70m voters again, ultimately to vote for him you have to be in the cult and nothing is changing minds.

The question is simply whether Biden will be able to get everybody out again to vote for him. Obviously we all hope he does, even if people vote holding their nose, but right now that seems a bit dicey to me.

 

[johnnytapia]

Another few "for starters..."
* Trump aims to get rid of or weaken as many Democratic institutions as possible if he is reelected, concentrating power in the Executive branch. The "you won't have to worry about politics if I'm elected" spiel touches on this. Under Trump, the US will move towards an authoritarian regime, possibly even becoming a dictatorship.
* Trump will pull the US out of NATO if re-elected. Trump does not care what Russia does and indeed admires Putin's invasion of The Ukraine.

On the last, NATO point, Steve Bannon was quite categoric on last night’s Newsagents’ podcast that Trump does not want the US to leave NATO. Was a very interesting listen, if at times slightly unhinged.

 

[BobKowalski]

On the last, NATO point, Steve Bannon was quite categoric on last night’s Newsagents’ podcast that Trump does not want the US to leave NATO. Was a very interesting listen, if at times slightly unhinged.

A President cannot unilaterally withdraw from NATO. It requires an Act of Congress. A President can render it useless, though. No cooperative alliance can survive if its principal participant acts in bad faith or erratically, and that is Trump‘s entire MO.

Europe cannot rely on the US going forward. It has to take responsibility for its own defence. Relying on the US electorate is not sustainable.

 

[SWP's back]

I don’t believe for one second either that Trump is going to increase his voter number - but I expect he will get the same 70m voters again, ultimately to vote for him you have to be in the cult and nothing is changing minds.

The question is simply whether Biden will be able to get everybody out again to vote for him. Obviously we all hope he does, even if people vote holding their nose, but right now that seems a bit dicey to me.

Demographics say that Trump will not get 70m this time round. The majority of his base is 4 years closer to the ground or in it. Polar opposite for Biden.

I see a wider gap in November.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Well, now I know people really hate trump, not going to talk about trump anymore.
Jesus...
Sorry, sorry

I appreciate you’re coming at this from the perspective of somebody who isn’t from the UK or US.

The problem you’re having is that you are trying to promote an approach of tolerance towards the fundamentally intolerant. This is known as the Paradox of Intolerance. Politicians like Trump don’t care for compromise - only moderates do. They will use your attempts to compromise to become self-ordained god emperors and fuck over the whole country.

The problem is that we in the west know this all too well. We know that your suggested approach of appeasement is a textbook guide on how you end up with fascist dictators… because it has happened here multiple times and caused world wars. These all followed exactly the same path that Trump is currently following.

He is trying to dismantle democratic institutions - he has said this out loud. It is written down in his Project 2025 documents. Full stop. You don’t need to know any more about his character, his crimes, his motivations or anything. That is where, as democratic nations, we draw a line. And the number of people who support him doesn’t matter, representative democracy is not the same as mob rule. There are plenty of people who think culture wars and immigration are important issues, our Tory party has been like this for 14 years. These are not the same as Trump, you are conflating concern over issues with dangerous anti-democratic intentions.

You’re also talking about a man who has been charged with 90+ crimes, including an attempted coup, has befriended Putin, has been found liable of sexual assault and fraud and ordered to pay $550m in combined damages, somebody who has insulted nearly every country in the world at some point and alienated the US from all of its allies. And you are saying he is functionally the same as Biden, the ice cream eating grandpa guy? You might not like Biden’s policies or think he’s too old but that is an absurd equivalence to make. They could not be more different.

 

[BobKowalski]

Kind of - they need to pass a bill which specifically outlines the criteria for ineligibility (which may or may not incorporate a court ruling). That criteria could be whatever Congress defines. If they just passed a bill saying Trump is ineligible, that would technically stick but then there would be nothing stopping the Republicans doing the same thing whenever they control the House/Senate and it would devolve into a tit for tat war of attrition and nobody would ever get anything done.

More likely they pass a bill which says something like:
> candidates who have a criminal conviction relating to insurrection can be removed via a majority vote in congress
Or
> candidates, regardless of whether they have a criminal conviction, can be removed by a vote meeting a threshold of two thirds of the House.

But while the Republicans control the House no bill will ever reach the floor.

Republicans don’t get anything done anyway. They stopped governing a while back. The House threshold for a majority is 218 votes and the Republicans are only a vote or two above that currently, with some races scheduled this year.

Given the closeness of the House, it seemed an odd ruling to make. The House passing a vote either on the back of a conviction or subject to a conviction in court would have perhaps made more sense.

It has been pointed out that the Supreme Court didn’t rule Colorado was wrong to state that Trump took part in an insurrection. Just that removal from the ballot was not their decision to make.

 

[hilts]

True, it is a mess, but it's arguably better than "let's fuck our economy over forever based on a 15-word referendum because we're afraid of brown people".

Trump and Biden are both gonna die some day. How old will Mr. Brexit be when he croaks?

And your elected-official choices aren't such great shakes either, FYI. But thankfully you haven't out-Trumped Trump yet. Here's hoping you don't, it sucks.

Ermm loss of some gdp or your kids getting shot in school, your mother being ill but can't afford the treatment or living in Baltimore.

Priorities fella, priorities.

 

[BobKowalski]

Ermm loss of some gdp or your kids getting shot in school, your mother being ill but can't afford the treatment or living in Baltimore.

Priorities fella, priorities.

The loss of some GDP and no longer able to provide decent universal health care as a consequence.

All votes have consequences, and ours will be long lasting.

On the bright side, we did get higher immigration levels as a consequence of Brexit and that never fails to amuse me.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

I have some questions to ask. It seems that the British public is very opposed to the political polarization in the UK (which is happening now in the United States) . However, on the other hand, the British public seems to have a very hostile attitude towards Trump. I mean, the mainstream media has taken almost demonic actions towards Trump. If the British public does not want the political polarization in the UK to be similar to that in the United States, they should be vigilant about these actions of the media, shouldn't they? Trump's values certainly reflect some views of American people, such as immigration, LGBTQ, drug prohibition, and cracking down on crime. American society do have some problems. His views and those who support him are part of Western democracy, aren't they? Why should Trump be portrayed as an enemy of Western democracy?

Because Trump is an absolute ****.