US Politics Thread

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/04/politics/trump-supreme-court-colorado-14th-amendment/index.html

As expected. This ruling is best for the country long term. We can't have each state decide willy-nilly who can run for President.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

The hyperbole and motive-assumption you use to "support" your arguments is getting really aggravating.

Where is the data that says "a lot of people" won't vote?

I'm not putting my head in the sand, I'm not saying it will never happen -- I am asking for the DATA that supports YOUR argument.

I don't believe the polls are "nonsense" -- but I have data that shows Trump's been underperforming what the polls say in the primaries. It's been posted many times by others here.

Where's yours?

I've posted data that the polling and the bettors believe Trump will be President - as of now, today. A lot will change prior to election day. Numerous posters on here don't believe the polls and the betters - fair enough. We agree to disagree.

Moreover, you, yourself Blue, have, if I'm not mistaken, lamented that some segment of the Democratic voting population now say that they're thinking of not voting. Probably most of those will end up voting, but we're guessing either way. What's clear is that there is an air of complacency - a lack of urgency - a sense of apathy - among some Democratic voters and this might affect the outcome.

I suspect that there's burnout on the Republican side too - but I don't follow the Republicunt pundits much so this is less clear.

 

[BobKowalski]

SCOTUS have predictably moved unanimously in deciding that individual states don’t have the right to keep somebody off the ballot under 14(3). This overturns the Colorado decision.

They went further though, stating that only an act of Congress can make a determination as to whether a person is ineligible under section 3. This part of the issued opinion is not unanimous but landed at 5-4 (Barrett was the dissenting GOP voice), with the other judges mostly contending that it is an error for the court to rule on a question it has not been asked and that Congress may not be the only mechanism for enforcing 14(3).

This second part of the ruling is really problematic because it rules out the possibility that some other process such as federal conviction alone would be sufficient to stop somebody holding office under 14(3). Congress are now the only ones who can make that determination.

Therefore the US finds itself in a situation where somebody can be federally charged and convicted of insurrection and still be eligible for the ballot providing that Congress supports them.

So, if the Democrats take the House (likely) they can rule Trump (or anyone) illegible under 14 (3) with no need for a court ruling?

 

[BobKowalski]

I've posted data that the polling and the bettors believe Trump will be President - as of now, today. A lot will change prior to election day. Numerous posters on here don't believe the polls and the betters - fair enough. We agree to disagree.

Moreover, you, yourself Blue, have, if I'm mistaken, lamented that some segment of the Democratic voting population now *say* that they're thinking of not voting. Probably most of those will end up voting, but we're guessing either way. What's clear is that their is a sentiment of complacency - a lack of urgency - among some Democratic voters and this might affect the outcome.

I suspect that there's burnout on the Republican side too - but I don't follow the Republicunt pundits much so this is less clear.

There is burnout on the Republican side, but it is a problem of their own making so sympathy is non-existent.

Polling right now is tight, but six months out from an actual election renders it little more than an interesting snapshot. What is true is that in recent elections Republicans have underperformed polling numbers. The confidently predicted red wave in the mid-terms ended up barely ankle deep.

And then there is Trump himself who instead of running on building a wall and promising free health care is now running on removing funding for polio vaccine programs and making himself dictator for life. Aside from these not being popular policies, it does make you wonder how serious his campaign actually is, or whether it’s just the drugs talking. Either way another six months of batshit lunacy is going to be problematic outside of the cult.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

So, if the Democrats take the House (likely) they can rule Trump (or anyone) illegible under 14 (3) with no need for a court ruling?

Kind of - they need to pass a bill which specifically outlines the criteria for ineligibility (which may or may not incorporate a court ruling). That criteria could be whatever Congress defines. If they just passed a bill saying Trump is ineligible, that would technically stick but then there would be nothing stopping the Republicans doing the same thing whenever they control the House/Senate and it would devolve into a tit for tat war of attrition and nobody would ever get anything done.

More likely they pass a bill which says something like:
> candidates who have a criminal conviction relating to insurrection can be removed via a majority vote in congress
Or
> candidates, regardless of whether they have a criminal conviction, can be removed by a vote meeting a threshold of two thirds of the House.

But while the Republicans control the House no bill will ever reach the floor.

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

I have some questions to ask. It seems that the British public is very opposed to the political polarization in the UK (which is happening now in the United States) . However, on the other hand, the British public seems to have a very hostile attitude towards Trump. I mean, the mainstream media has taken almost demonic actions towards Trump. If the British public does not want the political polarization in the UK to be similar to that in the United States, they should be vigilant about these actions of the media, shouldn't they? Trump's values certainly reflect some views of American people, such as immigration, LGBTQ, drug prohibition, and cracking down on crime. American society do have some problems. His views and those who support him are part of Western democracy, aren't they? Why should Trump be portrayed as an enemy of Western democracy?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I have some questions to ask. It seems that the British public is very opposed to the political polarization in the UK (which is happening now in the United States) . However, on the other hand, the British public seems to have a very hostile attitude towards Trump. I mean, the mainstream media has taken almost demonic actions towards Trump. If the British public does not want the political polarization in the UK to be similar to that in the United States, they should be vigilant about these actions of the media, shouldn't they? Trump's values certainly reflect some views of American people, such as immigration, LGBTQ, drug prohibition, and cracking down on crime. American society do have some problems. His views and those who support him are part of Western democracy, aren't they? Why should Trump be portrayed as an enemy of Western democracy?

Starter for10:

Because he’s a fascist clown who literally stated he would act like a dictator if elected.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I have some questions to ask. It seems that the British public is very opposed to the political polarization in the UK (which is happening now in the United States) . However, on the other hand, the British public seems to have a very hostile attitude towards Trump. I mean, the mainstream media has taken almost demonic actions towards Trump. If the British public does not want the political polarization in the UK to be similar to that in the United States, they should be vigilant about these actions of the media, shouldn't they? Trump's values certainly reflect some views of American people, such as immigration, LGBTQ, drug prohibition, and cracking down on crime. American society do have some problems. His views and those who support him are part of Western democracy, aren't they? Why should Trump be portrayed as an enemy of Western democracy?

Another few "for starters..."
* Trump aims to get rid of or weaken as many Democratic institutions as possible if he is reelected, concentrating power in the Executive branch. The "you won't have to worry about politics if I'm elected" spiel touches on this. Under Trump, the US will move towards an authoritarian regime, possibly even becoming a dictatorship.
* Trump will pull the US out of NATO if re-elected. Trump does not care what Russia does and indeed admires Putin's invasion of The Ukraine.

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

Another few "for starters..."
* Trump aims to get rid of or weaken as many Democratic institutions as possible if he is reelected, concentrating power in the Executive branch. The "you won't have to worry about politics if I'm elected" spiel touches on this. Under Trump, the US will move towards an authoritarian regime, possibly even becoming a dictatorship.
* Trump will pull the US out of NATO if re-elected. Trump does not care what Russia does and indeed admires Putin's invasion of The Ukraine.

But...to what extent the United States can be called a "democratic country"? I mean, the United States, as a country, relies on technology, finance, media, and military power. All of these fields are controlled by a small number of elites. From the perspective of foreigners, the United States has become like a hegemony,a dictatorship. Antony Blinken can publicly declare that "you are either at the table or on the menu". Anyway, this doesn't seem like something democratic countries would say.

The wars initiated by the Democratic Party of the United States are not fewer than those initiated by the Republican Party. The usual way of doing things is that when American elites discover that a certain place is profitable, they will mobilize the media, conduct extensive propaganda, demonize a foreign government, and then begin military action, or cause economic chaos through sanctions, leading to social unrest and regime change, creating a new pro American regime.

After the emergence of a new pro American regime, American companies began to enter and gain significant profits. This is often the case, but many American people are unaware of it because their media won't tell them the truth. A large number of lies and secret operations (assassination, subversion, sabotage). When the American people are immersed in the moral satisfaction brought about by "democracy",(This kind of "democracy" looks like a lullaby provided by the media), the US government appears to be the world's largest dictatorship. Now that Trump may become the President of the United States, democracy seems to be under threat, but is America really democratic?

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

Back to the "political polarization", I don't think there is any essential difference between Trump and Biden. I believe that the American people should adopt a compromise attitude and maintain social harmony as much as possible. Only by uniting together can the American people have an impact on the elites and make American democracy work.