US Politics Thread

[Rascal]

Abstaining is a coward's way out, as the events of the last week should prove. "Equally dangerous" -- absolute fuckwittery of the highest order.

On the contrary Mr Fog, it is registering my distrust in both.

If and thankfully I was not born in your capitalist hell hole of a country the only person i would consider voting for is Bernie Sanders, at least he is slightly left wing.

Moral cowardice is supporting those who send your fellow citizens to war for Capitalist gain and Imperialistic design. Moral cowardice is supporting those who refuse to give their fellow man healthcare provision, that is moral cowardice , that is America. Your nation is the nation of fuckwittery, your nation elected Trump, not mine, although we also have our own fuckwits who elected the Conservative party.

 

[Rascal]

For fucks sake Russ.

Several things, for a start a load of people replied to you at length yesterday and you’ve decided to completely ignore those posts and just repeat your arse water of an argument again. Yet when just one says they can’t be arsed arguing with you, you think it’s some sort of moral victory and that he’s no better than a ‘corporate elitist’ for having the common sense to realise it’s beyond pointless. That’s some rank hypocrisy right there old chum.

Anyway - You would rather take the power of companies away and force them to publish extremists views?

Is there anything Trump et al could say that would cross the line for you and allow these private companies to adhere to their own code of conduct by banning them?

How high up in office does one have to be to be unbanable?

Morning Sam :)

Yes I would take companies power away, I would nationalise them. Companies would be under the democratic control of the workers, not random Billionaires using their wealth to influence political decision making.

A lot of people replied to my points yesterday, it was not possible to reply to them all, I apologise to anyone who feels neglected and I will attempt to address those points today when time allows.

I reiterate once again, Trump has crossed the line and acted in an undemocratic fashion, the man is a lunatic, yet still I do not believe it is corporations who should be holding him to account. It is an undemocratic abuse of corporate power and it could possibly lead down the path to Oligarchy.

It feels like it is only me who is upholding democratic accountability whilst a majority are happy for their lives to be run by the Billionaires who control the corporations. Nobody elected them to wield such power.

 

[foetus]

You do understand, apart from the mass attack on the Constitution, that people have been killed due to the rantings of a mad man on Twitter?

Give me fucking strength. Freedom of speech my arse, freedom to kill is good with you. True socialist/Marxist/communist ... views they are!

Not making any exuses for what happened in Washington DC the other day but more people died during the BLM protests. BLM and Antifa leaders haven’t had their Twitter accounts banned.
These ‘cultural wars’ are going to continue. It’s dangerous if companies like Twitter, FB and YouTube have a bias and are silencing a certain side of the political spectrum. It is happening (even ignoring Trump’s ban).
Tim Pool is knowledgeable on the subject and worth a listen to if you don’t believe me.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

There is no debate to be had with a Democratic Socialist. Are you that frightened of what you don't understand, are you scared of reds under the bed. Do you think the Stasi will be tapping your mobile phone.

You are as bad as the Corporate elite if you have not the wit nor werewithall to debate across the political spectrum.

You never know you might just learn all your fears are baseless and all the propaganda shovelled down your gullet was lies and untruths propogated by the very corporate elite that have shut down Trump,

Debate? With somebody who believes that you should be allowed to use SM for whatever you want, inciting violence which leads to the death of others. Then calls it censorship?

Nah, pal, not for me.

 

[SWP's back]

It feels like it is only me who is upholding democratic accountability whilst a majority are happy for their lives to be run by the Billionaires who control the corporations. Nobody elected them to wield such power.

Yes, it’s just you. That should tell you something.

You would rather have an unhinged wannabe despot spew his unabashed hate and anti-democratic message on a private company’s platform (against their stated code of conduct that all users signed up to) than potentially (and hypothetically) have a situation at some point in the future where said platform bans a user for their legally held political view.

What you’re suggesting is more authoritarian than the present reality and luckily no one resembling your view (nationalise everything etc) will be in a position of such control in my lifetime.

I know you mean well but I vehemently disagree with your stance on this.

 

[Rascal]

Yes, it’s just you. That should tell you something.

You would rather have an unhinged wannabe despot spew his unabashed hate and anti-democratic message on a private company’s platform (against their stated code of conduct that all users signed up to) than potentially (and hypothetically) have a situation at some point in the future where said platform bans a user for their legally held political view.

What you’re suggesting is more authoritarian than the present reality and luckily no one resembling your view (nationalise everything etc) will be in a position of such control in my lifetime.

I know you mean well but I vehemently disagree with your stance on this.

The purpose of debate is to explore different stances, vehemently disagreeing is fine, i don't expect many to agree with my stance but i would like them to explore what I am posting rather than dismissing it as nonsense and Sam there is no need to patronise me, I know you also mean well. :))

Again though you miss my point, so i will reiterate it once again, I have no truck with Trump, the man is a dangerous and unhinged lunatic and no I do not want to see him spewing bile and hatred on any platform ever. My point is and remains constant, it is not and should never be the remit of corporate entities to decide what is and what isn't suitable. That power is above their remit in my opinion because of the dangers of Oligarchy. Do you really want corporations deciding what when who and where you run your life or do you want a democratically elected government to regulate what is and what is not permissable.

If we don't debate these topics and dismiss opinions so readily i fear we have already fallen under the spell of corporate control.

So I say once again. How many of Tony Benn's five tests on democracy would a corporate entity pass.

 

[Rascal]

Debate? With somebody who believes that you should be allowed to use SM for whatever you want, inciting violence which leads to the death of others. Then calls it censorship?

Nah, pal, not for me.

Again you miss my point.

It is where the censorship is coming from.

 

[Rascal]

Not making any exuses for what happened in Washington DC the other day but more people died during the BLM protests. BLM and Antifa leaders haven’t had their Twitter accounts banned.
These ‘cultural wars’ are going to continue. It’s dangerous if companies like Twitter, FB and YouTube have a bias and are silencing a certain side of the political spectrum. It is happening (even ignoring Trump’s ban).
Tim Pool is knowledgeable on the subject and worth a listen to if you don’t believe me.

Exactly, somebody gets it.

 

[BlueNomad]

Your arguments are merely political ideology on the structure of the economic system, not necessarily the structure of the political framework.

How one organizes their economic system is a choice, and America has chosen. So far, as a fledgling experiment of only a couple of centuries, I think most people would say it has worked quite well, even if it has violent revulsion sat times to help “reset” course.

Indeed, it is telling that the manner in which the US conducts its business, and politics, is often considered the envy of the world.

Could there be greater worker enfranchisement? Absolutely!
Will it happen? Absolutely not! (Well, maybe not absolutely not, but, at best, we might see some incremental worker gains over the next 4 years).

I think everyone would enjoy a worker utopia...more remuneration for less work through greater efficiency...but to date it appears such a utopia is unavailable anywhere else (except in some theoretical social science books, perhaps), such that we could all admire and copy it, is there?

If you know somewhere your utopia exists, could you tell us, explain its political and economic structure and illuminate the path the US might need to follow to such a Goldilocks society?

And, the corporate ownership of certain speech outlets is, to be patently obvious, corporate, and does nothing to nullify the First Amendment speech afforded ALL citizens of the US.

BTW, it’s no different than the censorship we ALL face on this Forum. Should Ric NOT have any guardrails? Should I be able to not only think it, but actually call all and sundry a **** on “his” Forum? How about speech which might be considered free in America but restricted in Britain?

Cheers.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

How high up in office does one have to be to be unbanable?

in terms of Bluemoon, I’d say celebrity poster and/or mod without portfolio

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

If and thankfully I was not born in your capitalist hell hole of a country the only person i would consider voting for is Bernie Sanders, at least he is slightly left wing.

For all its many and manifest faults I can think of very few countries on earth thst I’d rather live than the United States. It’s a brilliant country.

 

[Dubai Blue]

This debate is going round and round in circles, but surely the crucial point is that Trump wasn't booted from Twitter for his political views, he was booted for using their platform to incite violence. Violence that ultimately resulted in several deaths.

That isn't political censorship (which I would always disagree with). It's a perfectly rational and justified response to someone behaving like a complete dickhead on their "property".

 

[buckshot]

God knows I've voiced my frustration with Trumps followers over the years but I never hated them. In the back of my mind I always kind of felt sorry for them. These are people I know, these people aren't terrorists. There were certainly some actual terrorists among them but if it weren't for Trump none of this would have happened.

Here is an example of what he's done

 

[buckshot]

This debate is going round and round in circles, but surely the crucial point is that Trump wasn't booted from Twitter for his political views, he was booted for using their platform to incite violence. Violence that ultimately resulted in several deaths.

That isn't political censorship (which I would always disagree with). It's a perfectly rational and justified response to someone behaving like a complete dickhead on their "property".

Follow the money. Twitter is a private company that can do what it wants. Trump just alienated the entire planet so he is toxic. They publicity they got for dropping him more than made up for the revenue he's going to generate six months from now.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

The person with the nuclear codes has been deemed too dangerous to have a twitter account.

 

[Rascal]

Your arguments are merely political ideology on the structure of the economic system, not necessarily the structure of the political framework.

How one organizes their economic system is a choice, and America has chosen. So far, as a fledgling experiment of only a couple of centuries, I think most people would say it has worked quite well, even if it has violent revulsion sat times to help “reset” course.

Indeed, it is telling that the manner in which the US conducts its business, and politics, is often considered the envy of the world.

Could there be greater worker enfranchisement? Absolutely!
Will it happen? Absolutely not! (Well, maybe not absolutely not, but, at best, we might see some incremental worker gains over the next 4 years).

I think everyone would enjoy a worker utopia...more remuneration for less work through greater efficiency...but to date it appears such a utopia is unavailable anywhere else (except in some theoretical social science books, perhaps), such that we could all admire and copy it, is there?

If you know somewhere your utopia exists, could you tell us, explain its political and economic structure and illuminate the path the US might need to follow to such a Goldilocks society?

And, the corporate ownership of certain speech outlets is, to be patently obvious, corporate, and does nothing to nullify the First Amendment speech afforded ALL citizens of the US.

BTW, it’s no different than the censorship we ALL face on this Forum. Should Ric NOT have any guardrails? Should I be able to not only think it, but actually call all and sundry a **** on “his” Forum? How about speech which might be considered free in America but restricted in Britain?

Cheers.

I believe this reply was aimed at me, if not i apologise, but if so thank you for a thoughtful and eloquent response.

You do appear resigned to your fate, even saddened by the course your nation has taken. Perhaps you need a Bernie Sanders or a Richard Wolff type figure in your political sphere. My country is no haven of peace and tranquility, it is a nation that is attempting to mirror yours albeit it without the constitutional restraints that you enjoy. I always think of America as a young country and i do not mean this in a horrible or nasty way, but it is a country that has a lot of growing up to do. It is like a petulant teenager at a boarding school. It wants to do certain things but is bound by the rules set down in history and meekly accepts them as unchangeable.

Perhaps you do need a revolution, one that takes power away from your elites and hands it to the proletariat who can then rewrite your constitution or even abolish it. I am no expert but what relevance does a document from the 1780s have to todays world.

 

[west didsblue]

Not making any exuses for what happened in Washington DC the other day but more people died during the BLM protests. BLM and Antifa leaders haven’t had their Twitter accounts banned.
These ‘cultural wars’ are going to continue. It’s dangerous if companies like Twitter, FB and YouTube have a bias and are silencing a certain side of the political spectrum. It is happening (even ignoring Trump’s ban).
Tim Pool is knowledgeable on the subject and worth a listen to if you don’t believe me.

Who are the leaders of BLM and Antifa and how do you know they haven’t been banned from Twitter?

 

[Dicko69]

I believe this reply was aimed at me, if not i apologise, but if so thank you for a thoughtful and eloquent response.

You do appear resigned to your fate, even saddened by the course your nation has taken. Perhaps you need a Bernie Sanders or a Richard Wolff type figure in your political sphere. My country is no haven of peace and tranquility, it is a nation that is attempting to mirror yours albeit it without the constitutional restraints that you enjoy. I always think of America as a young country and i do not mean this in a horrible or nasty way, but it is a country that has a lot of growing up to do. It is like a petulant teenager at a boarding school. It wants to do certain things but is bound by the rules set down in history and meekly accepts them as unchangeable.

Perhaps you do need a revolution, one that takes power away from your elites and hands it to the proletariat who can then rewrite your constitution or even abolish it. I am no expert but what relevance does a document from the 1780s have to todays world.

Magna carta says hello

 

[Rascal]

For all its many and manifest faults I can think of very few countries on earth thst I’d rather live than the United States. It’s a brilliant country.

Would you get gig's there Michael?

It is a country that is way down my list of countries i would like to live in, the people are fine (love the southern girls accents) , the politics is not to my liking.

 

[Rascal]

Magna carta says hello

A charter enshrining the rights of Barons to exploit serfs is hardly noteworthy.