US Presidential Race 2016

[TCIB]

Putin is a **** no doubt but he is an honest ****, no debate with him. The second his oppo starts speaking he will pull a gun and shoot the fucker and shrug, Russia barely misses a beat and carries on as normal :-D

Russia are cunts but so is the USA, they are all after resources and strategic footholds and do the same things to get them, so do we for that matter.

 

[CitizenTID]

So, if it wasn't for Russian propaganda you'd view Putin as an election rigging tyrant, but now you've seen the propaganda you don't think he's that bad? I'm not sure you've grasped what propaganda is to be honest.........

I don't think you've grasped that propaganda is in any non-objective politically-related, published information. Without Russia propaganda, your information only comes from western propaganda, besides the rare objective pieces that are very rare to come across in mainstream media.

I know Putin is far from perfect, but also the vast majority of people know little of the dilemmas the leader of a world superpower has to face. I'm just trying to find some ground in understanding the reality between what Putin's Russia is actually like, versus what U.S. influenced sources tell us what it's like and the reality of the U.S. govt. Many/most posters on here will have grown up during the cold war so will automatically have an anti-Russia stance ingrained within them I'm sure. Having information from all sides of a story allows us to form a balanced viewpoint of our own however and my point was that it's only recently the other sides' has started flowing through to the masses; opening up such discussions with posters on here has also been extremely helpful to myself in the past in moulding a better understanding of things than merely looking at sources of information myself.

 

[CitizenTID]

Putin is a **** no doubt but he is an honest ****, no debate with him. The second his oppo starts speaking he will pull a gun and shoot the fucker and shrug, Russia barely misses a beat and carries on as normal :-D

Russia are cunts but so is the USA, they are all after resources and strategic footholds and do the same things to get them, so do we for that matter.

That seems a good, blunt summary ha. It does feel he has more a stranglehold on the politics than a typically elected leader through various means, however this may be necessary if you need to take a state in a particular direction to avoid the next leader un-doing everything you were working towards - if it is good for the people and the world, I can't say I have a problem with that; if it's not with good intentions, it's obviously very bad. That's why I'm trying to grasp what he's actually like - he's clearly very intelligent, and I don't believe any leader can be effective without holding cards close to their chest, possibly painting themselves in false lights from time to time to justify a means.

There's clearly a lot of dodgyness in Russian matters that stems from the state, such as the case of Litvinenko, Abrahmovic/Putin (or business/state) relations and such stuff indicates. It appears the state has an agenda to remodel the world's perception of Russians also - the state funded doping and what appears to have been state encouraged hooliganism suggest trying to paint an image of a strong (or even superior) race. However, the surface of doping within sport has only been scratched, there are big suspicions western organisations try and implement the same through other tactics (inc. medical exemptions and such). Both, the USA and Russia play the same games on the world stage no doubt and as you allude to in your last sentence, it appears to be a kind of neo-imperialism game being played out - though, the USA has clearly been much more aggressive (blatant) in that aspect with their meddling in other nations. To me, Russia appears to be fighting up a hill though, at a disadvantage to the Americans in that they cannot identify anywhere near as much with the English speaking world, which may explain somewhat, their more dodgy decisions.

Also, with the rising economies of China, Brazil, India, the future (it's already started) appears to be a battle of economic spheres of influence, as things such as TTIP (USA/EU economic relations) suggests.

EDIT: Not cited but interesting excerpt from Litvinenko's wiki page (who was talking to MI6, allegedly to help tackle Russian organised crime, however still understandable he'd be assassinated) - 'During his time in London, Litvinenko wrote two books, Blowing Up Russia: Terror from Within and Lubyanka Criminal Group, wherein he accused the Russian secret services of staging the Russian apartment bombings and other terrorism acts in an effort to bring Vladimir Putin to power. He also accused Putin of ordering the murder in October 2006 of the Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaja.' Further interesting contrast with the USA if you believe they're capable of false flags.

 

[super_city_si]

this is liek voting for the scousers or the rags to win the league. No one wins but one is slightly less bearable than the other

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

Just an insight into hilary's foreign policy, and she shrugged of the criticism by calling it a mistake which resulted in millions of deaths and turned both the countries into living hell, she might not have used the words which trump did for muslims but you have to be deluded at best to think if she even give 2 cents abt them and once you see things like these you dont have to be a racist redneck to prefer trump over her. Counter argument would be trump supported iraq ivasion to, well he wasnt in the position of power like she has been throughout and supported every american invasion and whats her future policy? to overthrow assad government and further escalate the tensions with russia and the counter argument which one might give, " oh Assad is a dictator" well they called saddam the dictator, and what happened after he was removed is there for everyone to see.

 

[george22]

The best analogy I have heard about the election is as follows.

Imagine that the USA is a person riding on the freeway on a motorbike at 150mph when they crash and smash head first into the back of a truck. As they lay on the ground with hundred of major injuries two ambulances both turn up on the scene. Trump and Clinton are the paramedics. They look at the patients and it slowly dawns on them that the poor victim is fucked as they are only qualified to fix broken fingers.

Anyone arguing that one is in anyway better than the other is just blinded by their own political persuasions.

Good analogy regarding political parties
Less so regarding specific candidates
In the voting booth on the 8th will be like the first time you shoot a gun
Hold tight
Pull the trigger
Pray to god no one gets hurt

 

[SkyBlueTX]

Two incredibly dislikeable candidates. No f-----g thanks. I'll write in:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/11151BCC-9565-11E6-A4A8-04BAD7D151EC

 

[Pell]

Know this isn't entirely on topic but not really worth another thread. Very interesting Putin interview here to contrast with these 2 numpties:



Clearly knows his history (extremely important in building a co-operative future) and I find it interesting when he says the Russian ideology is of a collective - does he mean the world/human-race here or just Russians (or maybe he means both)? I've watched a fair few interviews recently from RT (yes I know it's Russian propaganda) and the things he talks about, he very much comes across as wanting to build a world that works together. This is completely at odds with the US govt. agenda as seen over the years. If it wasn't for RT, I'd probably still automatically view Putin as an election-rigging tyrant which says a lot about our media. It's strange having grown up always thinking Russia was the enemy and then suddenly realising that may very well be the one's that had been painting them that way.

I still get the impression Russia is a hard, no-nonsense state in the way they treat offenders and that there is a lot of poverty and run-down shit holes there. That may say more about it's past and the fact it is a very large, hard to control area though. Anyone ever been to Russia? Without the western propaganda and from an objective stance, what's it really like the day to day life there?

To understand Putin, and why a lot of Russians like him, you should read Godfather of the Kremlin written by an Russian-American, who wrote for Forbes magazine. Brilliant book about the Oligarchs (including Abramovich who doesn't come out well at all) and how the country was just plundered after the Soviet Union tanked, and the rampant corruption, poverty and greed that was Russia in the 90s. The author of the book ended up being assassinated. If you want a good, objective insight into modern day Russia, I highly recommend it.

 

[west didsblue]

Just an insight into hilary's foreign policy, and she shrugged of the criticism by calling it a mistake which resulted in millions of deaths and turned both the countries into living hell, she might not have used the words which trump did for muslims but you have to be deluded at best to think if she even give 2 cents abt them and once you see things like these you dont have to be a racist redneck to prefer trump over her. Counter argument would be trump supported iraq ivasion to, well he wasnt in the position of power like she has been throughout and supported every american invasion and whats her future policy? to overthrow assad government and further escalate the tensions with russia and the counter argument which one might give, " oh Assad is a dictator" well they called saddam the dictator, and what happened after he was removed is there for everyone to see.

Wtf are you on about.
Clinton was just one of 77 Senators who voted in favour of the Iraq war along with most of Congress and the parliaments of many other nations. Even your country supported the US led coalition. She wasn't a member of George W Bush's government so how you can personally blame her for Iraq is a bit bizarre.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Wtf are you on about.
Clinton was just one of 77 Senators who voted in favour of the Iraq war along with most of Congress and the parliaments of many other nations. Even your country supported the US led coalition. She wasn't a member of George W Bush's government so how you can personally blame her for Iraq is a bit bizarre.

Having seen the clip of the Trump supporter slagging off Barack Obama for neglecting his duty and not being at his post in the Oval Office where he should have been on 9/11 I am far from surprised he lays the entire blame for the Iraq war at Clintons feet.

Come to think of it what were either of them doing that was positive at Gettysburg?? Typical fucking Democrats Lol !!