Var debate 2019/20

 
It’s early and it needs tweaking or more so rules need changing and common sense needs to be applied
No VAR and yesterday and we’re sat at 1-1, no VAR v spurs were 2 points better off, just one example
It’s going to be hard to sort the offside out as yes Wolves goal yesterday was very tight but he is offside, that’s not VAR fault it’s just going by the rule, the clear and obvious wording is a joke though, how can it go to VAR and they check it see it’s offside but then say “ it’s a goal though cos he wasn’t offside by much “
 
waspish said:
Cant beloved fans moan about the offsides offsides and goal line goals are facts 1mm ofside will be 1mm offside for every team
Click to expand...
The offside by 1mm is not a fact. With a frame rate of 50 frames per second and a running speed of 10 metres per second, a player can move 20 cm between frames. This gives a margin of error of 20 cm based on one simple calculation.

Add further "errors" such as
which frame to use when the ball is played?
is the ball played when it first touches or leaves the foot?
Which body part to use when taking offside measurements?
Is the correct perspective used?
Does the camera compensate for not being in line and adjust perspective and vertical alignment?
What about level being on side?
What is level ? Is there a tolerance used?

And you believe an offside by 1mm is a fact?
 
Tommy_Catons_Perm said:
The offside by 1mm is not a fact. With a frame rate of 50 frames per second and a running speed of 10 metres per second, a player can move 20 cm between frames. This gives a margin of error of 20 cm based on one simple calculation.

Add further "errors" such as
which frame to use when the ball is played?
is the ball played when it first touches or leaves the foot?
Which body part to use when taking offside measurements?
Is the correct perspective used?
Does the camera compensate for not being in line and adjust perspective and vertical alignment?
What about level being on side?
What is level ? Is there a tolerance used?

And you believe an offside by 1mm is a fact?
Click to expand...

Ive said from the start it should be one frame per second. The more frames equals more room for manipulation. Or just do away with offside outside the penalty area.
 
give it to gordon said:
the thing that worries me about getting it removed will it help the dippers even more ? I know they are getting shed loads this season but what would this season have been like without VAR ?
Click to expand...

and it begins ... remove VAR and you will have officials just pointing to the spot and raising the flag whenever they feel like it, no justification needed, no help for the officials, no one to tell the ref they’ve screwed up - just left for them to guess. But if fans want to revert back to this then so be it, there’s no easy solution but I thought technological help was a step forward.
Lets go back to watching likes of Man U and Liverpool score goals ‘clearly’ offside and diving and winning penalty’s all the time. Sigh.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
and it begins ... remove VAR and you will have officials just pointing to the spot and raising the flag whenever they feel like it, no justification needed, no help for the officials, no one to tell the ref they’ve screwed up - just left for them to guess. But if fans want to revert back to this then so be it, there’s no easy solution but I thought technological help was a step forward.
Lets go back to watching likes of Man U and Liverpool score goals ‘clearly’ offside and diving and winning penalty’s all the time. Sigh.
Click to expand...

yes but isn't this still happening for the scum and dippers with VAR the scum have had more penalties than games played lol and the dippers well enough said..
 
It’s not just us, I was in a bar in Spain yesterday watching most of the football and there were fans from pretty much all clubs in, who to a man thought VAR was ruining the game.
Even the scousers looked a bit embarrassed.
 
From ESPN
VAR in the Premier League: Ultimate guide

Here, we run through the league table of overturned decisions. Who will benefit most over the course of the Premier League season? Only Newcastle have yet to experience an overturn decision against them, while Wolves are the only club without a decision in their favour.

Total overturns: 58
Leading to goals: 16
Leading to disallowed goals: 32
Penalties awarded: 10 (4 missed)
Penalties overturned: 2
Penalties retakes: 4 (1 from scored, 3 from missed)
Goals ruled out for offside: 22
Goals awarded after incorrect offside: 6
Goals ruled out for handball: 5
Goals allowed after wrong handball: 1
Red cards: 2
Overturned red cards: 1

What will the VAR review?
- Goal/no goal
- Penalty/no penalty
- Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)
- Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player)


What will it not review?
- Any yellow card (including second yellow card leading to red)
- Any free kick offence outside the box (other than red card offence)

This relates purely to overturned decisions, so penalty appeals that stay with the on-field referee are not included.

Brighton & Hove Albion +5
Overturns: 9
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 5

Game: West Ham (H; Aug. 17)
Incident: Brighton goal for Leandro Trossard ruled out for offside by Dan Burn, who created the goal, 27th minute - AGAINST

Game: Aston Villa (A; Oct. 19)
Incident: Conor Hourihane goal ruled out for a foul by Wesley on Mat Ryan, 42nd minute - FOR

Game: Everton (H; Oct. 26)
Incident: Penalty awarded (scored by Neil Maupay) for foul on Aaron Connolly by Michael Keane, 78th minute - FOR

Game: Leicester (H; Nov. 23)
Incident: Jamie Vardy penalty retaken after James Maddison scored the rebound with encroachment, 80th minute - FOR

Game: Arsenal (A; Dec. 5)
Incident: David Luiz goal disallowed for offside, 63rd minute - FOR


Game: Sheffield United (H; Dec. 21)
Incident: John Egan goal ruled out for handball, 8th minute - FOR
Incident: Jack O'Connell goal disallowed for offside, 54th minute - FOR

Game: Tottenham (A; Dec. 26)
Incident: Harry Kane goal ruled out for offside, 24th minute - FOR

Game: Bournemouth (H; Dec. 28)
Incident: Dan Burn goal ruled out for offside, 58th minute - AGAINST

Southampton +4
Overturns: 6
Leading to goals for: 0
Disallowed goals for: 0
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 5

Game: Sheffield United (A; Sept. 14)
Incident: Oliver McBurnie's goal disallowed for offside, 52nd minute - FOR

Game: AFC Bournemouth (H; Sept. 20)
Incident: Josh King scored for the Cherries, but he was offside, 25th minute - FOR

Game: Wolves (A; Oct. 19)
Incident: Raul Jimenez goal ruled out for offside against Patrick Cutrone, 42nd minute - FOR


Game: Leicester (H; Oct. 25)
Incident: Ryan Bertrand sent off for challenge on Ayoze Perez, 12th minute - AGAINST

Game: West Ham (H; Dec. 14)
Incident: Goal for Michail Antonio ruled out for handball, 52nd minute - FOR

Game: Crystal Palace (H; Dec. 28)
Incident: Goal for Max Meyer ruled out for offside by Wilfried Zaha in the build-up, 15th minute - FOR

Manchester United +3
Overturns: 5
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 0
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 1

Game: Arsenal (H; Sept. 30)
Incident: Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang goal, originally ruled out for offside, overturned on review, 58th minute - AGAINST

Game: Liverpool (H; Oct. 20)
Incident: Sadio Mane goal ruled out for handball, 43rd minute - FOR


Game: Norwich (A; Oct. 27)
Incident: Penalty awarded (missed by Marcus Rashford) for foul on Daniel James by Ben Godfrey, 25th minute - FOR
Incident: Penalty awarded (missed by Anthony Martial) for handball by Todd Cantwell, 41st minute - FOR

Game: Man City (A; Dec. 7)
Incident: Penalty awarded (scored by Marcus Rashford) for foul on Rashford by Bernardo Silva - FOR

AFC Bournemouth +2
Overturns: 4
Leading to goals for: 2
Disallowed goals for: 1
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 1

Game: Southampton (A; Sept. 20)
Incident: Josh King scored for the Cherries, but he was offside, 25th minute - AGAINST


Game: West Ham (H; Sept. 28)
Incident: Josh King goal, originally ruled out for offside, cleared by the VAR, 17th minute - FOR

Game: Chelsea (A; Dec. 14)
Incident: Dan Gosling goal, originally disallowed for offside, given by the VAR, 84th minute - FOR

Game: Brighton (A; Dec. 28)
Incident: Dan Burn goal ruled out for offside, 58th minute - FOR

Leicester City +2
Overturns: 8
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 1
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 3

Game: Wolves (H; Aug. 11)
Incident: Wolves goal for Leander Dendoncker disallowed for handball in build-up by Willy Boly, 51st minute - FOR

Game: Tottenham (H; Sept. 21)
Incident: Goal disallowed for offside against Ayoze Perez, 16th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Son Heung-Min offside in build-up to Serge Aurier goal, 64th minute - FOR

Game: Burnley (H; Oct. 21)
Incident: Jonny Evans own goal ruled out due to a foul by Chris Wood, 80th minute - FOR

Game: Southampton (A; Oct. 25)
Incident: Ryan Bertrand sent off for challenge on Ayoze Perez, 12th minute - FOR


Game: Brighton (A; Nov. 23)
Incident: Jamie Vardy penalty retaken after James Maddison scored the rebound with encroachment, 80th minute - AGAINST

Game: Everton (H; Dec. 1)
Incident: Penalty for foul on Ben Chilwell by Mason Holgate cancelled, 34th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Kelechi Iheanacho effort, originally ruled offside, given as a goal, 94th minute - FOR

Liverpool +2
Overturns: 6
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 3

Game: Chelsea (A; Sept. 22)
Incident: Chelsea goal ruled out after Mason Mount was offside in the build-up to Cesar Azpilicueta's goal, 27th minute - FOR

Game: Man United (A; Oct. 20)
Incident: Sadio Mane goal ruled out for handball, 43rd minute - AGAINST

Game: Crystal Palace (A; Nov. 23)
Incident: James Tomkins goal ruled out for push by Jordan Ayew, 43rd minute - FOR


Game: Watford (H; Dec. 14)
Incident: Sadio Mane goal ruled out for offside, 51st minute - AGAINST

Game: Wolves (H; Dec. 29)
Incident: Goal for Sadio Mane given after originally ruled out for handball by Adam Lallana, 42nd minute - FOR
Incident: Goal for Pedro Neto ruled out for offside in the build-up by Jonny, 45th minute - FOR

Burnley +1
Overturns: 5
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 1

Game: Aston Villa (A; Sept. 28)
Incident: Goal for Villa's John McGinn ruled out on review, Conor Hourihane offside in build-up, 25th minute - FOR

Game: Leicester (A; Oct. 21)
Incident: Jonny Evans own goal ruled out due to a foul by Chris Wood, 80th minute - AGAINST


Game: Chelsea (H; Oct. 26)
Incident: Penalty overturned for diving by Callum Hudson-Odoi, 76th minute - FOR

Game: West Ham (H; Nov. 9)
Incident: Chris Wood goal disallowed for offside, 36th minute - AGAINST

Game: Watford (A; Nov. 23)
Incident: Penalty (scored by Barnes) awarded for foul on Ashley Barnes by Jose Holebas, 80th minute - FOR

Crystal Palace +1
Overturns: 5
Leading to goals for: 2
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 1

Game: West Ham (A; Oct. 5)
Incident: Jordan Ayew goal awarded after originally being ruled out for offside, 87th minute - FOR

Game: Arsenal (A; Oct. 27)
Incident: Penalty awarded for foul by Calum Chambers on Wilfried Zaha (initially booked for diving), 32nd minute - FOR
Incident: Sokratis goal disallowed for foul by Calum Chambers, 83rd minute - FOR


Game: Liverpool (H; Nov. 23)
Incident: James Tomkins goal ruled out for push by Jordan Ayew, 43rd minute - AGAINST

Game: Southampton (A; Dec. 28)
Incident: Goal for Max Meyer ruled out for offside by Wilfried Zaha in the build-up, 15th minute - AGAINST

Manchester City +1
Overturns: 7
Leading to goals for: 2
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 1

Game: West Ham (A; Aug. 10)
Incident: City goal for Gabriel Jesus ruled out for an offside against Raheem Sterling earlier in the move, 53rd minute - AGAINST
Incident: Missed City penalty retaken due to encroachment by Declan Rice. Retake scored by Sergio Aguero, 86th minute - FOR

Game: Tottenham (A; Aug. 17)
Incident: City goal for Gabriel Jesus ruled out for handball in build-up by Aymeric Laporte, 90th minute - AGAINST

Game: Man United (H; Dec. 7)
Incident: Penalty awarded (scored by Marcus Rashford) for foul on Rashford by Bernardo Silva - AGAINST


Game: Wolves (A; Dec. 27)
Incident: Penalty awarded (missed by Raheem Sterling) for foul on Riyad Mahrez by Leander Dendoncker, 21st minute - FOR
Incident: Missed City penalty retaken due to encroachment by Connor Coady . Retake scored by on rebound by Raheem Sterling, 25th minute - FOR

Game: Sheffield United (H; Dec. 29)
Incident: Goal for Lys Mousset ruled out for offside, 29th minute - FOR

Newcastle +1
Overturns: 1
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 0
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 0


Game: Sheffield United (A; Dec. 5)
Incident: Jonjo Shelvey goal, originally ruled out for offside, cleared by the VAR, 70th minute - FOR

Tottenham Hotspur +1
Overturns: 9
Leading to goals for: 0
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 5

Game: Man City (A; Aug. 17)
Incident: City goal for Gabriel Jesus ruled out for handball in build-up by Aymeric Laporte, 90th minute - FOR

Game: Leicester (A; Sept. 21)
Incident: Goal disallowed for offside against Ayoze Perez, 16th minute - FOR
Incident: Son Heung-Min offside in build-up to Serge Aurier goal, 64th minute - AGAINST

Game: Sheffield United (H; Nov. 9)
Incident: Goal for David McGoldrick disallowed for offside in build-up by John Lundstram, 60th minute - FOR

Game: West Ham (A; Nov. 23)
Incident: Declan Rice goal disallowed for offside, 89th minute - FOR


Game: Chelsea (H; Dec. 22)
Incident: Penalty (scored by Willian) awarded for foul by Paulo Gazzaniga on Marcos Alonso, 45th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Son Heung-Min sent off for foul on Antonio Rudiger, 62nd minute - AGAINST

Game: Brighton (H; Dec. 26)
Incident: Harry Kane goal ruled out for offside, 24th minute - AGAINST

Game: Norwich (A; Dec. 28)
Incident: Teemu Pukki goal ruled out for offside, 33rd minute - FOR

Watford +1
Overturns: 3
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 0
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 1


Game: Chelsea (H; Nov. 2)
Incident: Penalty (scored by Deulofeu) awarded for trip on Gerard Deulofeu by Jorginho, 77th minute - FOR

Game: Burnley (H; Nov. 23)
Incident: Penalty (scored by Barnes) awarded for foul on Ashley Barnes by Jose Holebas, 80th minute - AGAINST

Game: Liverpool (A; Dec. 14)
Incident: Sadio Mane goal ruled out for offside, 51st minute - FOR

Arsenal -1
Overturns: 5
Leading to goals for: 2
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 0

Game: Man United (A; Sept. 30)
Incident: Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang goal, originally ruled out for offside, overturned on review, 58th minute - FOR

Game: Crystal Palace (H; Oct. 27)
Incident: Penalty awarded for foul by Calum Chambers on Wilfried Zaha (initially booked for diving), 32nd minute - AGAINST
Incident: Sokratis goal disallowed for foul by Calum Chambers, 83rd minute - AGAINST


Game: Norwich (A; Dec. 1)
Incident: Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang missed penalty retaken (and scored) following encroachment by a defender, 29th minute - FOR

Game: Brighton (H; Dec. 5)
Incident: David Luiz goal disallowed for offside, 63rd minute - AGAINST

Aston Villa -1
Overturns: 3
Leading to goals for: 0
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 0
Disallowed goals against: 0


Game: Burnley (H; Sept. 28)
Incident: Goal for John McGinn ruled out on review, Conor Hourihane offside in build-up, 25th minute - AGAINST

Game: Brighton (H; Oct. 19)
Incident: Conor Hourihane goal ruled out for a foul by Wesley on Mat Ryan, 42nd minute - AGAINST

Game: Sheffield United (A; Dec. 14)
Incident: Penalty awarded (missed by Jack Grealish) for handball by John Egan, 76th minute - FOR

Everton -1
Overturns: 3
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 0
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 0

Game: Brighton & Hove Albion (A; Oct. 26)
Incident: Penalty awarded (scored by Neal Maupay) for foul on Aaron Connolly by Michael Keane, 78th minute - AGAINST


Game: Leicester (A; Dec. 1)
Incident: Penalty for foul on Ben Chilwell by Mason Holgate cancelled, 34th minute - FOR
Incident: Kelechi Iheanacho effort, originally ruled offside, given as a goal, 94th minute - AGAINST

Chelsea -2
Overturns: 8
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 2
Leading to goals against: 2
Disallowed goals against: 1

Game: Norwich (A; Aug. 24)
Incident: Chelsea goal for Kurt Zouma disallowed for a foul on the goalkeeper by Olivier Giroud, 77th minute - AGAINST

Game: Liverpool (H; Sept. 22)
Incident: Goal ruled out after Mason Mount was offside in the build-up to Cesar Azpilicueta's goal, 27th minute - AGAINST

Game: Burnley (A; Oct. 26)
Incident: Penalty overturned for diving by Callum Hudson-Odoi, 76th minute - AGAINST

Game: Watford (A; Nov. 2)
Incident: Penalty (scored by Deulofeu) awarded for foul by Jorginho for trip on Gerard Deulofeu, 77th minute - AGAINST


Game: West Ham (H; Nov. 30)
Incident: Goal for Michail Antonio ruled out for handball, 67th minute - FOR

Game: Bournemouth (H; Dec. 14)
Incident: Dan Gosling goal, originally disallowed for offside, given by the VAR, 84th minute - AGAINST

Game: Tottenham (A; Dec. 22)
Incident: Penalty (scored by Willian) awarded for foul by Paulo Gazzaniga on Marcos Alonso, 45th minute - FOR
Incident: Son Heung-Min sent off for foul on Antonio Rudiger, 62nd minute - FOR

West Ham -3
Overturns: 9
Leading to goals for: 0
Disallowed goals for: 3
Leading to goals against: 3
Disallowed goals against: 3

Game: Man City (H; Aug. 10)
Incident: City goal for Gabriel Jesus ruled out for an offside against Raheem Sterling earlier in the move, 53rd minute - FOR
Incident: Missed City penalty retaken due to encroachment by Declan Rice. Retake scored by Sergio Aguero, 86th minute - AGAINST

Game: Brighton (A; Aug. 17)
Incident: Brighton goal for Leandro Trossard ruled out for offside by Dan Burn, who created the goal, 27th minute - FOR

Game: AFC Bournemouth (A; Sept. 28)
Incident: Josh King goal, originally ruled out for offside, cleared by the VAR, 17th minute - AGAINST

Game: Crystal Palace (H; Oct. 5)
Incident: Jordan Ayew goal awarded after originally being ruled out for offside, 87th minute - AGAINST

Game: Burnley (A; Nov. 9)
Incident: Chris Wood goal disallowed for offside, 36th minute - FOR


Game: Tottenham (H; Nov. 23)
Incident: Declan Rice goal disallowed for offside, 89th minute - AGAINST

Game: Chelsea (A; Nov. 30)
Incident: Goal for Michail Antonio ruled out for handball, 67th minute - AGAINST

Game: Southampton (A; Dec. 14)
Incident: Goal for Michail Antonio ruled out for handball, 52nd minute - AGAINST

Norwich City -4
Overturns: 6
Leading to goals for: 0
Disallowed goals for: 1
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 1

Game: Chelsea (H; Aug. 24)
Incident: Chelsea goal for Kurt Zouma disallowed for a foul on the goalkeeper by Olivier Giroud, 77th minute - FOR

Game: Man United (H; Oct. 27)
Incident: Penalty awarded (missed by Marcus Rashford) for foul on Daniel James by Ben Godfrey, 25th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Penalty awarded (missed by Anthony Martial) for handball by Todd Cantwell, 41st minute - AGAINST


Game: Arsenal (H; Dec. 1)
Incident: Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang missed penalty retaken (and scored) following encroachment by a defender, 29th minute - AGAINST

Game: Sheffield United (H; Dec. 8)
Incident: Red card for Chris Basham rescinded, 74th minute - AGAINST

Game: Tottenham (H; Dec. 28)
Incident: Teemu Pukki goal ruled out for offside, 33rd minute - AGAINST

Sheffield United -6
Overturns: 8
Leading to goals for: 0
Disallowed goals for: 5
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 0

Game: Southampton (H; Sept. 14)
Incident: Oliver McBurnie's goal disallowed for offside, 52nd minute - AGAINST

Game: Tottenham (A; Nov. 9)
Incident: Goal for David McGoldrick disallowed for offside in build-up by John Lundstram, 60th minute - AGAINST

Game: Newcastle (H; Dec. 5)
Incident: Jonjo Shelvey goal, originally ruled out for offside, cleared by the VAR, 70th minute - AGAINST

Game: Norwich (A; Dec. 8)
Incident: Red card for Chris Basham rescinded, 74th minute - FOR

Game: Aston Villa (H; Dec. 14)
Incident: Penalty awarded (missed by Jack Grealish) for handball by John Egan, 76th minute - AGAINST


Game: Brighton (A; Dec. 21)
Incident: John Egan goal ruled out for handball, 8th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Jack O'Connell goal disallowed for offside, 54th minute - AGAINST

Game: Manchester City (A; Dec. 29)
Incident: Goal for Lys Mousset ruled out for offside, 29th minute - AGAINST

Wolves -6
Overturns: 6
Leading to goals for: 0
Disallowed goals for: 3
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 1

Game: Leicester (A; Aug. 11)
Incident: Wolves goal for Leander Dendoncker disallowed for handball in build-up by Willy Boly, 51st minute - AGAINST

Game: Southampton (H; Oct. 19)
Incident: Raul Jimenez goal ruled out for offside against Patrick Cutrone, 42nd minute - AGAINST

Game: Man City (H; Dec. 27)
Incident: Penalty awarded (missed by Raheem Sterling) for foul on Riyad Mahrez by Leander Dendoncker, 21st minute - FOR
Incident: Missed City penalty retaken due to encroachment by Connor Coady . Retake scored by on rebound by Raheem Sterling, 25th minute - FOR

Game: Liverpool (A; Dec. 29)
Incident: Goal for Sadio Mane given after originally ruled out for handball by Adam Lallana, 42nd minute - AGAINST
Incident: Goal for Pedro Neto ruled out for offside in the build-up by Jonny, 45th minute - AGAINST
 
give it to gordon said:
yes but isn't this still happening for the scum and dippers with VAR the scum have had more penalties than games played lol and the dippers well enough said..
Click to expand...

honestly I don’t think so. I recall Liverpool scoring offside goals and winning penalty’s by diving far more last season - at the moment a lot is going to VAR with them and it showing majority of time that they are getting it marginally correct, it’s the fact that they seem to be getting these marginal calls in their favour that has caused uproar - yesterday that really wasn’t a handball by VVD, that wasn’t a handball by Lallana and by the law interpretations given it was a offside goal from Wolves. All 3 were the correct decisions but when they are against you it’s hard to swallow and it creates anger.
 
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