Var debate 2019/20

After yesterday, interesting to look at the IFAB publication on Laws of the Game 2019/20. http://theifab.com/backend/library/doc/changes-to-the-laws-and-clarifications-201920 Handball is Law 12 .

Page 40 explains the rationale for the changes - "football does not accept: a goal being scored directly from the hand/arm (even if accidental)" Note the word "directly". The rationale also says football does not accept "a player gaining possession/control of the ball from their hand/arm (even if accidental) and then scoring or creating a goal-scoring opportunity " Key word here is "their".

These points are then set out in the amended text of Law 12 on pages 44, 46 and 51. Laporte neither gained possession nor control nor scored a goal (so nothing wrong on p44). Did Laporte create a goal scoring opportunity ? Probably not, because Jesus had a fair bit of work to do afterwards; so looks like nothing wrong on p46. (and, as an aside, would the pull on Laporte's arm be DOGSO ?).So, page 51 - its a free kick if a player scores "directly from their hand/arm" - no, that didn't happen.

Pages 65 and 67 make it clear that there will not usually be an offence unless there is a handball within the words of the rule - unnaturally bigger and so on.

So this all suggests that the rule is a goal dirctly from a hand / arm is disallowed (the situation where Wolves scored and Llorente scored) but what where the accidental touch on the arm is a move or several moves beforehand ?

Everyone (players, Michael Oliver, commentators) were clear that the touch on Laporte's arm was accidental. I have heard no justification that it was a handball within the Law. Laporte hadn't made his profile bigger - if it was, the Spurs player did that by pulling his arm.
 
From reading this morning, any touch by an attacking player leading to a goal is handball, yet defenders are still 'allowed' to accidentally touch the ball without giving away a pen?

So you have 2 outfield players stood next to each other, subject to different sets of rules! Absolute madness.

Game's gone.
 
Couldn't post last night as I was too angry. I left the game very, very angry yesterday and to be perfectly honest if I'd gone past a Spurs fan taking the piss I'm not entirely sure I could have laughed it off. Even when the Rags done us 2-3 I was pissed off, but not angry.

That said, if we could fucking finish the decision wouldn't have mattered.
 
Like Ive said Previously, my thoughts about this cnut of a system are plain n obvious, it’s totally inept and I will never ever change my views, I’ve watched the debacle in MLS for over a year!
Let’s see what the reaction is if/when the media darlings have one go against them IF they do of course
It’s no exaggeration to say that not one single person watching that game saw that ridiculous accusation of handball
Our beautiful game is gone and may it RIP!!
The KFA tin god fookers of FIFA & UEFA finally have their device to stop us and ...... have the ability to totally control the outcome of games, which has long since been their aim!
2 City games
2 massively controversial VAR decisions go AGAINST us....... hmmmmm
Fook them and fook their whole corrupt system, lets go and win the fkin lot again and then deliver the biggest FOOK YOU message to the whole damn crooked lot of em!
 
standupifyouhatemanu said:
My FB post last night....... I Know all the armchair fans out there, the City haters, the rags, the dippers will love what happened today but.... for me football died today, since I first went to City as an 11 year old football was magic, the ups, the downs (and we have had a few) but today for the first time I realised you cannot celebrate a goal anymore, that's what football is about, punching the air for a last minute winner, now you can't, VAR has ruined the game, every fair football fan if they are honest would have to agree that to give handball for that incident today is total nonsense. Next time your team scores in the 90th+ minute you have to wait, wait for screen to tell you if the goal is given, then that moment is gone. A few instances, imagine the Aguero moment having to wait for the screen to say goal or no goal, and to prove no bias imagine Solskaer winner in an even bigger game against Bayern Munich, having to wait for the screen, the moment has gone. If you are on the receiving end like Spurs today you will be delighted, until it happens to them when Kane scores a screamer at the Emirates but it brushes of someones arm. The game is finished, doomed, VAR is great for armchair neutral supporters but mark my words, when it happens to you're team you will agree. VAR has ruined football.
Click to expand...
Nailed it 100% agree
 
Lancet Fluke said:
The rule is a direct consequence of VAR. They’ve got the ability to micro check things so they change the rules to take advantage of the technology/ability. But remember also that the handball rule change wasn’t supposed to happen until summer but uefa decided to introduce it at the very moment the ball hit Otamendi’s hand, a few weeks before the rose incident. I think I’m right in saying they hadn’t told clubs, players or public that there was going to be a completely different interpretation of handball 6 months before the rule change was supposed to come in. None of those bullshit handballs in the CL should have been given last season.
Click to expand...

It’s the interpretation of VAR what’s the issue not the technology itself.

If used properly it could be an excellent addition to the game. You seen the best and worst of it last season against Spurs in the CL.

It could 100% improve the nature of offsides calls so long as all VAR refs use the frame of when the pass is first played i.e not when the ball has left the foot.

I’d change the new handball rule to only being disallowed if an accidental handball results in a direct goal. However, that’s a rule issue rather than VAR.

Again, I’ve no problem with them checking every goal and red card if it applies to all teams at all times.

The big issue I have is picking and choosing when it’s used. Checking for a penalty last weekend for West Ham but not yesterday for Rodri is a disgrace.

In fact, I’d go as far as only using VAR for offsides, deliberate handballs and red cards/mistaken identity.
 
In my opinion it needs to be used for every game changing decision including penalty calls in the box. It should also be fully transparent with the decision being shown on the big screens in the ground.
 
Rather than look at someone else's interpretation of the handball law - look at what it says:

It is an offence if a player:
  • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
  • gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
    • scores in the opponents’ goal
    • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
  • scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
So VAR had to interpret the accidental handball by Laporte and determine if he gains possession/control and then creates a goal-scoring opportunity.

In my opinion it is meant to apply to a player who deliberately gets control of the ball accidentally and goes on to provide an assist not an inadvertent deflection..

This interpretation of the laws.
 
Yes that's the infuriating thing, if you're going to use it for the handball why wasn't it used for the penalty? I'm not even convinced it hit Laporte's arm anyway, from the TV replay which I must have seen 20 times now it could have been the defender's arm. It certainly doesn't look 100% clear cut.

But the real issue is it's ruining the game. You don't know whether to celebrate a goal or not and it's solving nothing if they don't use it for every decision. It's a complete mockery if you can have a goal chalked off but not be given a penalty, so whichever way you look at it we were robbed.
 
Does anyone visit other teams forums? Do the majority realise that when it's crunch time in the season, when they're desperate for points, every goal they score, tackle they make in the area, any marginal offside will be crutinsed to death. Whilst up the other end against the chosen few they'll have to put up with things let slide and not reviewed? VAR is going to be used to hurt the many and benefit the few.
 
Bluephoria said:
After yesterday, interesting to look at the IFAB publication on Laws of the Game 2019/20. http://theifab.com/backend/library/doc/changes-to-the-laws-and-clarifications-201920 Handball is Law 12 .

Page 40 explains the rationale for the changes - "football does not accept: a goal being scored directly from the hand/arm (even if accidental)" Note the word "directly". The rationale also says football does not accept "a player gaining possession/control of the ball from their hand/arm (even if accidental) and then scoring or creating a goal-scoring opportunity " Key word here is "their".

These points are then set out in the amended text of Law 12 on pages 44, 46 and 51. Laporte neither gained possession nor control nor scored a goal (so nothing wrong on p44). Did Laporte create a goal scoring opportunity ? Probably not, because Jesus had a fair bit of work to do afterwards; so looks like nothing wrong on p46. (and, as an aside, would the pull on Laporte's arm be DOGSO ?).So, page 51 - its a free kick if a player scores "directly from their hand/arm" - no, that didn't happen.

Pages 65 and 67 make it clear that there will not usually be an offence unless there is a handball within the words of the rule - unnaturally bigger and so on.

So this all suggests that the rule is a goal dirctly from a hand / arm is disallowed (the situation where Wolves scored and Llorente scored) but what where the accidental touch on the arm is a move or several moves beforehand ?

Everyone (players, Michael Oliver, commentators) were clear that the touch on Laporte's arm was accidental. I have heard no justification that it was a handball within the Law. Laporte hadn't made his profile bigger - if it was, the Spurs player did that by pulling his arm.
Click to expand...

Definitely appears to be easily enough leeway there to allow the goal.
 
At the very least the Var referees decision should be audible to the crowd to explain it.And why the fuck s he making the decision anyway I thought he drew the referee's attention to an incident and the on field official looked on a monitor and decided
 
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