Var says , penalty...is what you’ll get, stop clutching at straws , its there to fuck us over & make Liverpool champions , no doubt in my mind .
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Var debate 2019/20
- Thread starter Chi-town blues
- Start date
Var says , penalty...is what you’ll get, stop clutching at straws , its there to fuck us over & make Liverpool champions , no doubt in my mind .
Dribble
Well-Known Member
But according to the guidance, VAR can overrule the ref if it's C&OE...... APPARENTLY.Yes, that pretty much covers the options:
VAR ignored it.
VAR decided it wasn't a foul.
VAR decided it wasn't a C&OE.
VAR did think it was C&OE and Oliver ignored/overruled them.
What VAR cannot do is overrule the ref on fouls. It can suggest that a pitchside review is appropriate.
However, what if the refs reviews & disagrees with VAR? What then? Who holds the balance of power?
simon23
Well-Known Member
Var says , penalty...is what you’ll get, stop clutching at straws , its there to fuck us over & make Liverpool champions , no doubt in my mind .
well if it does then ill be on the conspiracy theorist side
Dribble
Well-Known Member
Apparently they've been doing trials for the last two years, but decided to delay it's implementation until they were happy they'd got it as near as damn it correct.Then surely they have no experience to talk to IFAB about? 1 week!
kaz7
Well-Known Member
Using it how they said it would used was what is was very in favour of but they have already gone back on there main selling point,clear and obvious has not been applied to us already,they strained ever sinew to make raz offside,was changing the handball to advantage the defenders and the opposite to the attackers been explained before hand? i might have misses that,now seeing how it works whoever thought it up needs hanging,the refs are discouraged from using the monitors,surely a last min goal would be an exception to that rule or what is the point of having them,i except teething problems but i would expect that more than us and wolves handball(i think,i didn't watch it)to be the ones its screwing over over a whole round of gamesfair points Karen, from our point of view - it felt like we were being robbed by the ref week in week out and stats back that up
https://www.claretandhugh.info/west-ham-come-off-worst-in-ref-decisions-in-league/
Brighton game we would have lost if it wasn't for VAR coming to our rescue.
Still judging by our fans and fans in general, VAR doesn't seem to be welcome and i understand the points being made.
Like i say, would be happy to revert to what we've always had (a ref and lino's forced into guessing on major decisions) but knowing we have the technology to help that just doesn't sit right with me.
mancity2012_eamo
Well-Known Member
fair points Karen, from our point of view - it felt like we were being robbed by the ref week in week out and stats back that up
https://www.claretandhugh.info/west-ham-come-off-worst-in-ref-decisions-in-league/
Brighton game we would have lost if it wasn't for VAR coming to our rescue.
Still judging by our fans and fans in general, VAR doesn't seem to be welcome and i understand the points being made.
Like i say, would be happy to revert to what we've always had (a ref and lino's forced into guessing on major decisions) but knowing we have the technology to help that just doesn't sit right with me.
That's fair enough @BlueHammer85 and I don't think anyone here is saying that no other teams were getting shafted.
I'm sure West Ham were. Not against Brighton though. I'd love to see the stats of decisions going against you against other top four sides.
This, I believe is where the real bias and the real artistry in their deceit, is.
I don't believe things even themselves out over the season. I believe the number of decisions going against teams may be similar, but the real crux of it is how many of those decisions have a real baring on the league table. I was all in favour of a rugby union style of VAR, but knew that we would not get that.
There is actually less transparency with the implementation of the rules now than when we were just relying on a ref/linesman to screw us.
Add to that the spontaneity being taken out of it for everyone, no matter who you support, and the current farce does not seem sustainable.
I had a United fan from work text me out of the blue on Saturday night, saying he'd just watched MOTD. Football is a farce was his conclusion. You were Robbed.
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
Bluehammer, would you rather be shafted by a linesman/ref that you can see and know the identity of, or some faceless "official" in a room watching god knows what.
I know us City fans are paranoid at this stage, but the fact is technology aiding the correct decisions being made, is a good thing.
The problem is that all the evidence we have on VAR at the moment suggests that in the same hands (The Regulators) it actually makes it easier to influence the result of a close scoring game.
We had a habit of being profligate in front of goal last season, but managed a few important 1-0 's in the run in.
Looks like that profligacy will be a big problem this season if we don't remedy it, as between refs and VAR, it is just another weapon in their arsenal.
VAR officials are all namedh. Scott was a PL ref in recent seasons.
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
But according to the guidance, VAR can overrule the ref if it's C&OE...... APPARENTLY.
However, what if the refs reviews & disagrees with VAR? What then? Who holds the balance of power?
As I understand it:
VAR can overrule on line calls - offside, inside/outside the area - as these are fact not judgement (and I'm not getting into offside as fact..!).
The onfield ref has the final call.
The last point is why I don't believe VAR said it was "a C&OE and he should review it pitchside" (speech marks to convey it's all one thing). Assuming the screen was available, to not do so would be ridiculous, and make the whole system pointless.
mancity2012_eamo
Well-Known Member
He's not facing the crowd at a match though is he.VAR officials are all namedh. Scott was a PL ref in recent seasons.
I watched on TV. I would have loved to hear the conversation between him and Oliver for the disallowed goal and the penalty incident.
We don't get that transparency.
I believe the technology could be used for the good of the game but have no faith that it will be.
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
Apparently they've been doing trials for the last two years, but decided to delay it's implementation until they were happy they'd got it as near as damn it correct.
Didn't know that. Fair enough.
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
He's not facing the crowd at a match though is he.
I watched on TV. I would have loved to hear the conversation between him and Oliver for the disallowed goal and the penalty incident.
We don't get that transparency.
I believe the technology could be used for the good of the game but have no faith that it will be.
No, but he's not a nameless individual either.
The transparency you describe is mostly what I've been banging on about - no-one knows what happened for the penalty. I think the disallowed goal (edit) was clearer - VAR reviewed the goal (as with all goals), and then reported that by law it should be disallowed having hit the arm.
flook
Well-Known Member
because it is correct . he gains possession of the ball for the team when the ball strikes his arm. The ball falls to jesus who then goes on to score .
you're misunderstanding what gaining possession is and what control of the ball is . They are not the same things .
you're inserting your own words here, nowhere does it say gain possession for the team, team is not mentioned. Laporte does not gain possession, it's arguable, though irrelevant, that he affects possession for the team, to paraphrase Danny Murphy (again) and to echo the view of every single ex-pro tv pundit of whatever flavour, there is no way on any football pitch in the world that that goal should have been disallowed.
Dribble
Well-Known Member
"Assuming the screen was available, to not do so would be ridiculous, and make the whole system pointless."As I understand it:
VAR can overrule on line calls - offside, inside/outside the area - as these are fact not judgement (and I'm not getting into offside as fact..!).
The onfield ref has the final call.
The last point is why I don't believe VAR said it was "a C&OE and he should review it pitchside" (speech marks to convey it's all one thing). Assuming the screen was available, to not do so would be ridiculous, and make the whole system pointless.
And that's the point..... To keep the game flowing & disruptions to a minimum, even if it results in a travesty of justice.
We had a warning at West Ham a week earlier. Now it's cost us two points.
flook
Well-Known Member
With the Var rules regarding handballs in the box yep it was the right Decision
No, No it just wan't, read the rules, understand them without inserting your own words, these are "laws of the game" and should require no interpretation, theywords should, and do, stand on there own
blue moony
Well-Known Member
Wow finally people are seeing my point !
The argument is about , proof and transparency !
Currently we are taking there work that they check every goal and penalty review !
Who can 100 per cent say they know this is true ! No one so it’s all a load of cloak and dagger bollox
The argument is about , proof and transparency !
Currently we are taking there work that they check every goal and penalty review !
Who can 100 per cent say they know this is true ! No one so it’s all a load of cloak and dagger bollox
blue moony
Well-Known Member
A heat map at a football match. We really have lost it.
That’s not my point and yo know
It , my point is about proof and transparency , if they can’t provide it , it’s total bullshit
jimharri
Moderator
Just saw the Dermot Gallagher clip from this morning on Twitter. For fuck's sake. There's no way he'll criticise a current referee.
MadchesterCity
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 12 Sep 2009
- Messages
- 18,265
Not like this,they now have the ability to hide in a van somewhere and change the result of a game,the crowd can't even boo them,2 games 2 goals that they had to pour over for 2 mins each to find a reason to disallow the goals,one by literally mms and the other when it's not clear who it hit,even if it was our man we didn't get an advantage,they are literally testing it out on us,they have changed handball to favour the defenders and so less pens and more goals ruled out,they said no reviews in slo mo and clear and obvious,thats all gone out of the window for us and if chucking someone to the ground is not a pen for the ref or var and they should come out and say so
They can now screw us over twice, by ref and by VAR
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
"Assuming the screen was available, to not do so would be ridiculous, and make the whole system pointless."
And that's the point..... To keep the game flowing & disruptions to a minimum, even if it results in a travesty of justice.
We had a warning at West Ham a week earlier. Now it's cost us two points.
I assume the club are enquiring as what happened.
If they're not using screens pitchside, they should do away with checking for fouls full stop.
kaz7
Well-Known Member
It's never going to happen jimbo,he is their mouthpiece in the media under the guise of someone giving an honest appraisal of the gamesJust saw the Dermot Gallagher clip from this morning on Twitter. For fuck's sake. There's no way he'll criticise a current referee.