I think the “clear and obvious error” principle should really apply to off the ball incidents or where the ref has a poor view. In those cases the Var official should make the decision. When it’s a incident like Saturday’s it seems more appropriate for the VAR official to say to the ref “I think you might want to take a 2nd look at the monitor”.However, we as football fans know that millions could be watching the same match, & still come to millions of differing opinions on what just took place.
To limit the use of pitch side monitors may speed up the game, but what about subjectivity? Who's to say the ref may have a different point of view to VAR once he's seen it? Things do look different first hand, to recorded.
This is bollocks. This is like me saying I don't trust my own eyes & ears, & need someone to constantly explain to me what I've just seen.
This being the case, why don't we just fuck off on field refs & assistants & stick with VAR?
That's alright for you to say,you are not a blue,the first 2 games we have been screwed over 3 times alreadyno other fucker has ,but you give it more than 2 games
It mentions the attacking team & lists offences.As I understand it:
VAR will identify penalties that are't given. So if the ref plays on, VAR should tell him if his missed something.
The IFAB protocol has this wording:
The referee may receive assistance from the VAR only in relation to four categories of match-changing decisions/incidents. In all these situations, the VAR is only used after the referee has made a (first/original) decision (including allowing play to continue), or if a serious incident is missed/not seen by the match officials.
The referee`s original decision will not be changed unless there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ (this includes any decision made by the referee based on information from another match official e.g. offside).
and also
The categories of decision/incident which may be reviewed in the event of a potential ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ are:
(a - goals)
b. Penalty kick/no penalty kick
http://theifab.com/laws/chapter/38/section/134/
- attacking team offence in the build-up to the penalty incident (handball, foul, offside etc.)
ball out of play prior to the incident- location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
- penalty kick incorrectly awarded
- penalty kick offence not penalised
If they're doing something different, then who knows what they're doing. I've not seen anything saying that this isn't given.
(edited twice to add text)
Oliver didn't give us a nailed on penalty, never does so what has changed?
So far it feels worse, screwed over and the ref doesn't care because he can blame the invisible man. With last season being so close, you can understand why we don't want this to go on too long. If nobody complains, the lawmakers assume we're happy. If there are no more VAR howlers and we come second by a point to the dipper cult, it'll be unbearable.before VAR did you not feel refs were not screwing you over ?
To be honest, I think it would be reasonable to assume they mean PL refs, adjudicating PL matches.That article doesn't indicate specifically that PL refs are those giving them feedback, although that it how it's written. If they were PL refs, then they're discussing CL or international matches, and quite possibly different VAR protocols.
It mentions the attacking team & lists offences.
So did anyone look at the Rodri incident? The ref certainly didn't as all he did was point to his earpiece & shrug.
- penalty kick incorrectly awarded
- penalty kick offence not penalised
But it also mentions the following:
"The referee`s original decision will not be changed unless there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ (this includes any decision made by the referee based on information from another match official e.g. offside)."
So who decides if it's a clear & obvious error, if the ref apparently has the final say? Does this mean VAR can overrule a ref, or vice versa?
Football law-makers IFAB deliver worrying VAR verdict following Man City vs Spurs controversy
https://www.football.london/premier-league/football-law-makers-ifab-deliver-16778334
“The VAR concept is still at the beginning. We talked to other sports and everyone told us this is a 10-year project until people really understand how it works.”
Brud insists that Premier League match officials are fully behind the introduction of the technology despite the teething problems.
“Referees report back to us that this is something they have always wanted, for various reasons,” he added.
“Every single referee has said to us, ‘For us, it’s great. We don’t have to be afraid of killing our careers.’
“They will have someone to fall back on and they love it."
Sooooo, referees are happy because they can absolve themselves of any responsibility & blame it on VAR?? WTF!
To be honest, I think it would be reasonable to assume they mean PL refs, adjudicating PL matches.
Not like this,they now have the ability to hide in a van somewhere and change the result of a game,the crowd can't even boo them,2 games 2 goals that they had to pour over for 2 mins each to find a reason to disallow the goals,one by literally mms and the other when it's not clear who it hit,even if it was our man we didn't get an advantage,they are literally testing it out on us,they have changed handball to favour the defenders and so less pens and more goals ruled out,they said no reviews in slo mo and clear and obvious,thats all gone out of the window for us and if chucking someone to the ground is not a pen for the ref or var and they should come out and say sobefore VAR did you not feel refs were not screwing you over ?
Bluehammer, would you rather be shafted by a linesman/ref that you can see and know the identity of, or some faceless "official" in a room watching god knows what.so we scrap VAR ... future scenarios :
Liverpool v City ... Salah goes through on goal and does a ridiculous dive - fans all appeal, Lino isn't sure, Refs view it looks like he got clattered - Ref gives a penalty .
Corner kick, ref spots a shove by a city player on a Liverpool player and awards a penalty - fans bemused as to what for.
long ball over the top, Salah miles offside, plays on and scores a goal.
++
all the above was happening week in week out in games and the accusations of corruption and anger was felt - Are you really saying if we scrap VAR everyone will just be happy and can accept decisions like the those above ? i'd be happy to go back to old system if fans really just accepted the refs decisions.
at least with VAR we have a fighting chance of implementing the correct decisions, however long it takes and it has a long way to go. I personally think they have bought in too much too soon, they should have implemented each law season by season , ie: for this season, VAR used just for offsides , next season for something else.
- one thing i agree with everyone, the spontaneous reaction when a goal goes in has been massively hampered, this is something i fully agree with. However, my honest opinion is i'd rather not be cheated/robbed by a ref/lino who has no clue on the incident and makes a wild guess.
I'm not sticking to my guns on this, i would favor scraping VAR if it's a total disaster, but i will give it a lot longer than 2 games.
Not like this,they now have the ability to hide in a van somewhere and change the result of a game,the crowd can't even boo them,2 games 2 goals that they had to pour over for 2 mins each to find a reason to disallow the goals,one by literally mms and the other when it's not clear who it hit,even if it was our man we didn't get an advantage,they are literally testing it out on us,they have changed handball to favour the defenders and so less pens and more goals ruled out,they said no reviews in slo mo and clear and obvious,thats all gone out of the window for us and if chucking someone to the ground is not a pen for the ref or var and they should come out and say so
Fuck off, Mark.before VAR did you feel refs were screwing you over ?
Hopefully not,why should any other team benefit when we didn't,they are using us to try things out so maybe they will change it,they shouldn't change anything till next season now but i think the rules will get softened along the way
Bluehammer, would you rather be shafted by a linesman/ref that you can see and know the identity of, or some faceless "official" in a room watching god knows what.
.
But here in lies the problem.... If VAR don't refer it to the ref so as to keep the game flowing, how do they know if he might have disagreed with them or not?I think the “clear and obvious error” principle should really apply to off the ball incidents or where the ref has a poor view. In those cases the Var official should make the decision. When it’s a incident like Saturday’s it seems more appropriate for the VAR official to say to the ref “I think you might want to take a 2nd look at the monitor”.
Fuck off, Mark.