Var debate 2019/20

[Theengelbert]

That’s the one thing for me, I’m not bothered about whether it was handball or whether it was offside...

I’m just bothered about the natural elation of it being a goal when the ball hits the net. That’s the one thing that makes football special. Rugby is a good game but running into a huge end zone and putting the ball down doesn’t have the same feeling that seeing the ball hit the net in football. I’ve been wishing for VAR for years but never experienced it to realise that what makes footy special is in danger of being taken away.

Having to hold back celebrating goals isn’t right. There’s no better feeling than a goal going into the net. That’s where the stresses of life are forgotten about, in that very moment.

Spot on. As someone said earlier imagine the aguerooo moment if VAR had been around. It would’ve lost it’s full magic

 

[melons]

Looking at it from a different perspective, I'd have been screaming at the ref if we hadn't been given that goal and Sergio was offside.
We lost because we shipped two cheap goals in three minutes.
I'm just proud that our team have been involved in what is possibly the greatest Champion's League game of all time.
Still feel sick though but I'm just trying to take the positives out of this...

 

[manimanc]

VAR is going to kill football. Last night was the perfect example of what it's going to do to the game, the change in emotions isn't exciting at all it's an absolute killer.
I think it was worse as it was right at the final whistle and not half way through the game but we have to get used to it as it's going to be in the prem next year.
It was handball but it's not intentional, his bands are close to his body and he's not extended them out, the fact the ref just shrugged his shoulders and gave it was the most alarming bit.
We just have to get on with it.

 

[give it to gordon]

Very much a joke if the ref isn't shown all the angles , perhaps UEFA show come out this morning and say why it didn't show the ref all the angles but that would mean doing what we all know .....mustn't let City get through and UEFA aren't going to come out and say that in public.

Shame that VAR is the talking point when in fact it was a great game of football...

 

[inbetween]

You can't score with your arms because its a foul so you can't be offside.....

 

[SamBlue]

Var is not a joke for sure, but its' implementation or people implementing it is! If UEFA or FIFA want to do it seriously they should look to NBA and how they did, in much more dynamic and nuanced sport than football will ever be. They invested 10 million $ and have a USAF general running the whole operation because of impartiality . There is an excellent podcast by Michael Lewis, 'Ref, you suck!' that explains the whole thing.
With ambiguous rules about hand-ball in the penalty area, passive off-sides, the first and the second phase of the attack and do on, and topped it with broadcaster chosen replays and technical difficulties, VAR will always end up producing games and decisions like the one yesterday.

 

[Gordyola]

He can only view what the ‘host broadcaster’ shows him. Given what they showed him, he was entirely correct in giving the goal.

Is this how it works? In my septugenarian naivete I thought that UEFA had their own system, independent of any commercial interest?

They have the feed from all cameras surely. When they show the VAR studio they have multiple monitors with a technician on hand

 

[OB1]

Nowhere in the laws of the game does that get mentioned. No random screenshot of a random website here, I’m talking the actual laws of the game.

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/laws-of-the-game-2018-19.pdf?cloudid=khhloe2xoigyna8juxw3
Page 102
“Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.
Handling the ball
The following must be considered:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence
The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area. Inside their penalty area, the goalkeeper cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a direct free kick or any related sanction but can be guilty of handling offences that incur an indirect free kick.”

The issue I have on the handball decision is that I am not convinced that the ref disallowed it because he deemed that it was not deliberate: he looks to have decided that it did not hit his arm.

Whether the spirit of the law intended to allow someone to jump into the ball elbow first and score is another matter and may be why the law is getting rewritten. Although, I have no confidence in the lawmakers to get it right. IMO, and this is not a new opinion, a penalty should only be awarded for "deliberate" handball (although that needs defining more clearly and carefully) and a goal should never be allowed if handball is involved.

I also think the offside rule is wrong as it stands and I truly detest the away goals rule.

 

[Theengelbert]

This thread needs to be split between those bickering about the specific decision and those who just hate the process of VAR. For me, even if it’d been the other way and spurs would’ve had a last minute marginally offside goal ruled out by VAR it would’ve felt very harsh and that something is wrong with the overall system and spontaneity of football

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The handball decision is a weird one. I would be massively pissed off if that was our goal and it was ruled out for handball. I think there are two main factors. The first is that it's not intentional, which as we've discovered, isn't really important any more. But the second is that you could make the argument that the contact is so slight that it doesn't really contribute to them scoring a goal. In the same way that a defender unintentionally handling a ball that's off target might not be given, but one that unintentionally blocks an on-target shot would concede a penalty. I honestly don't know what the official rules are any more, because until this season, it was always intentional handball only, in which case the goal stands. But it's a bit rich to give a penalty against Otamendi, but then allow that goal last night, unless the rule is as I mentioned above.