Var debate 2019/20

[James McJohn]

It would also give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking team. Currently a goal can be disallowed even if the attacker is not offside.
Nobody really knows for certain if a player is offside when the margin is very small. The camera lies because a player can move 13cm between frames.

If a very large margin of error of say 26 cm was used, (the diameter of a football) then it would "envelope" the distance a player can move between frames. There would be a safety factor of 2 in favour of the attacking side. Some goals which are really offside would then be allowed.

The VAR then measures 26cm as not offside. It would measure 26.00001 as offside. QED

While I see you point of view. There is no "Benefit of the doubt" or "Clear and obvious" when it comes to offside. Yes the camera cant be 100% accurate, but it is the agreed technology that all parties have subscribed to virtue of accepting their position in the PL & it should be used to as accurate a point as it can. Ideally there would be no argument about framespeed etc, but it's a slippery slope if you start sliding benefit of the doubt back in.

I've always wondered could something be done with GPS trackers. Put one on the same spot on everyone chest (they all have them anyway) and if the attacking player is behind two of them he is on etc.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

So, to dispell a myth - "Clear and obvious" has no relationship with the offisde whatsoever, it simply doesnt apply to offside. The point is UEFA / FIFA / PL are using the technology to the best of it's technical abilities to identify the Yes or No of an offside decision. With the agreed technology used, Sterling was offside at west ham and it was the right decision.

All a margin of error (such as the 20cm) would achieve is shift in where the measurement is done.

Taking account of the the margin of error because of camera frame times would still involve close decisions but would stop people being called offside when they are actually onside. You could only be offside by 21 cms not 19cms. It would improve the current situation which is just simply inacccurate based on the capabiity of the equipment. It's a move in the right direction surely.

 

[northendenton]

The saying, the camera does not lie is a lie itself ,it's a "bigger liar than Tom Pepper" as my old gran would have said.It too is open to manipulation if required to make a point.

 

[edinburgh123]

I think the point is that because there is a margin of error between frames unless the frame used by the var people has its immediate before and after frames also shown it is open to suspicion as to which frame has been selected.
Giving the full margin of error ie plus or minus eliminates this suspicion and need to view 3 successive frames.

2 frames - one before touching the ball and the next one (first one with contact). If you are offside on both - bingo, if you aren't offside on either then you can not call it. You could easily undertake complex algorithms on speed of journey and let a computer decide, but in order to make it simple - the two frames before and after are all that is needed. This will inevitably come in when the numpties who control this finally come up with the idea for next season

 

[Tommy_Catons_Perm]

2 frames - one before touching the ball and the next one (first one with contact). If you are offside on both - bingo, if you aren't offside on either then you can not call it. You could easily undertake complex algorithms on speed of journey and let a computer decide, but in order to make it simple - the two frames before and after are all that is needed. This will inevitably come in when the numpties who control this finally come up with the idea for next season

I think you are right. So simple. Offside only if offside in both frames - before touching ball and the next frame after that.

Or even more simple - Only use the frame before touching the ball. If that is not offside then deemed "level" when the ball is played. Benefit of the doubt to the attacker. "Level" is not offside.

 

[edinburgh123]

I think you are right. So simple. Offside only if offside in both frames - before touching ball and the next frame after that.

Or even more simple - Only use the frame before touching the ball. If that is not offside then deemed "level" when the ball is played. Benefit of the doubt to the attacker. "Level" is not offside.

problem with frame before is if you are running onside rather than offside, you may be onside in frame before but not when the ball is 'touched'. Hence - to provide an element of benefit of doubt to attacker (as has always been the case historically) both the before and after should be used and there has to be an offside in each

 

[Tommy_Catons_Perm]

problem with frame before is if you are running onside rather than offside, you may be onside in frame before but not when the ball is 'touched'. Hence - to provide an element of benefit of doubt to attacker (as has always been the case historically) both the before and after should be used and there has to be an offside in each

Ok. So that's it we have the solution then. Is anybody listening ?

 

[SilverFox2]

Not certain what the camares record at but I assume it is 1 or 4 k but I think it may still be " interlaced " which means instead of 50 fps there are only 25 fps " progressive" that is full frames per second.
Hopefully the speed of 2 football athletes potentially travelling towards each other has been taken into consideration when evaluating the distance travelled between frames.

Cameras can easily be adjusted to 50p then changed for transmission purposes to interlaced ie descaled again in realtime so I hope they can record before transmission (ie progressive frames) on site to evaluate individual frames otherwise perhaps larger distances between frames than calculated.

 

[mat]

Isn't this what Old Mother Riley wants? No on field decisions reversed? Just shows what a great job his officials do. VAR not needed here. Move along, nothing to see.

He got one tonight.

 

[BlueHammer85]

What it needs if fucking off. If someone can tell me how it has improved the game then i'm all ears.
Still not been to a match yet.

just a reminder of football without VAR

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50175001

and Bertrand would have stayed on the pitch for that tackle tonight.

It’s not perfect. And has a lot of issues to iron out. But it’s highlighting just how many crucial incidences get missed without VAR.