Var debate 2019/20

[blueinsa]

Implementing it slowly may have helped, if they perfected using it for handball first, then moved on to offside when that was sorted then things may have been better with it. They're still not using it to stamp out diving and the sly little kicks, stamps and elbows though and for me that's a more pressing need than perfecting the art of working out offsides to a fraction of a millimetre or seeing if a ball brushed against the nail of an attackers finger to rule out a goal.
It's the fact that it isn't being used to stop cheating that makes it seem all the more corrupt.
I haven't seen a team cheat as regularly and systematically as Liverpool have over the last six or so years, they've mastered the art of diving and the sly rake of the studs down the back of opposition players ankles and other snidey tactics of a similar ilk. VAR isn't being used to stop this behaviour and is in fact rewarding it in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to diving for penalties as we now seem to live in the age of 'if there's contact he's entitled to go down' nonsense, no one is 'entitled to go down' you go down if you've been tripped, pushed or otherwise impeded, it isn't a decision a player makes themselves.
VAR has completely ripped the heart out of top level football in this country with the way it is being used to help Liverpool to the title. I can understand how you're a fan of it as it probably doesn't affect West Ham too often, at the start of the season you predicted you could finish eighth, which seems realistic, you probably had a few teams in mind that you would be battling with in and around that area of the table. I haven't watched any games this season apart from ours (because of the way VAR is being used) so I don't l know this for certain but I'm pretty sure that West Ham haven't been constantly on the wrong end of 'controversial' VAR decisions while your rivals have been on the right end of equally as 'controversial' decisions.
For us the situation is slightly different, we were aiming for one position in the table only, first, and we knew who our one serious rival was, Liverpool. We started the season pretty well but from week one we saw the way that the referees were using VAR and as the season went on I have watched the desire and fight drain from our players. Personally, I can't blame them for giving up because when you're trying to go toe to toe with a rival but you're playing the game to different rules, and you're the ones disadvantaged by the disparity between these different rulebooks, then it affects players mentally and as we know mentality is a huge part of the game these days.
Last season Liverpool got a lot of favourable decisions, they were constantly being rewarded for diving as referees were too scared to not give them the result they wanted, the press would crucify them for denying Liverpool a penalty but if they give one for a dive then it isn't mentioned anywhere and so they, quite naturally, take the easy option and give it. We hoped that VAR would stop this and give us a level playing field, but it hasn't, it's made it worse. This season for us we have been screwed over every single weekend, if we don't get screwed by VAR then Liverpool have been gifted points using VAR. We have had points taken of us and given to Liverpool, as have Chelsea, Leicester, Palace, Spurs, Everton and maybe Villa? There may be a couple of other teams that have been on the wrong end of Liverpool's VAR 'luck' but I can't remember them all as I don't watch their games anymore.
It's not just the last minute penalties from dives that have changed the season around, it's also the fact that even with VAR in play Liverpool are immune to cards and therefore none of their ever serve a suspension. Is there any other team that could have a player elbow drop an opposition player in the head during a derby game and then laugh in his face because he knew he was absolutely immune to any kind of action? If that had been any other team in the league it would have been called out for the shameless act of a coward and there would be repeat calls for the player to be banned but that doesn't happen to Liverpool. The same way they have carte blanche to push opposition players into hoardings with no threat of sanction, or stamp on players, or trip them as they are about to have a shot, etc, etc, etc.
This is what we have been playing against this season, I have seen the effect it has had on top class players who have dedicated their lives to being the best athlete they can in their chosen sport and it is awful to see them, as well as us as paying fans, be cheated out of being able to watch top quality athletes from 20 teams go at it over a season to see who comes out on top.
As you say, the referees have been terrible and most probably corrupt in other seasons but it's worse this season as the technology is there to make this a fair competition for all but instead it's being used to manipulate the league and that, to me at least, is an absolute disgrace and is the death knell of football as a sport in this country.

Superb post is that.

 

[blueinsa]

Rather than like posts @danielwood5 has nailed what is happening perfectly.

I watched the Derby, watched the penalty given, watched VAR overturn an on field refs decision and i honestly felt fucking nothing.

Numb to it because I'm so disinterested in the game due to VAR and cheats in PiGMOB.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I get what you are saying but it would be the aftermath of every game without VAR like before, every match was dominated by how bad the refs was, the diving, cheating etc.
We know without VAR the officials can not cope with the game and have to make blind decisions - I don’t see how we could revert back to that.

I’ve always said it, VAR should have been bought in more slowly - ie: just for this season - VAR to be used for handball decisions. Then next season VAR for handball and offside decisions etc. Slow implementation is the only way.

I think back to the season we conceded a pen when the ball hit Raheem on the back and Crappenberg gave the pen, and the time it hit Micah on the leg and FatPhil said it was his hand 'cos he had both hands up over his head, like yer do. Those were the days when I said that too many games are not decided on what has gone on during a game, but what the ref thinks has gone on. The situation we have now is that these same inadequates, the so-called elite of the refereeing world, have a system that seems to work ever so well in other international sports without too much bother, are buggering up a game way beyond what obtained in those days. I cannot for life of me understand why Virgil gets away with a foot on the instep, and Sissoko and Silva don't, or conversely, why Virgil doesn have a penalty awarded against him and a booking! Referees should operate on the basis that if it's a pen in one game, it's a fuckin' pen in every game. The fact that it isn't only leads to the majority of paying fans thinking that there are different thresholds - and there's no other word for that but cheating!

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Rather than like posts @danielwood5 has nailed what is happening perfectly.

I watched the Derby, watched the penalty given, watched VAR overturn an on field refs decision and i honestly felt fucking nothing.

Numb to it because I'm so disinterested in the game due to VAR and cheats in PiGMOB.

Yeah, I'm becoming numb to these VAR decisions because there can't be many City fans who think that a VAR decision will eventually come to us in a game situation that turns the result.

 

[blueinsa]

Excellent post. You should send this to the bent bastards at PiGMOL, but it wouldn't make the slightest difference as they are taking theit instructions from the PL / FA , as they have as good as awarded Liverpool the PL title already.

Agree but worse still imo is it doesnt fucking register with our own top brass.

They knew VAR wasn't in operation at Anfield, they know we have been fucked over constantly and they have imo gone along with it because cash is king and the bottom line the only thing that matters.

fans have been taken for a ride!

 

[axlgod]

Implementing it slowly may have helped, if they perfected using it for handball first, then moved on to offside when that was sorted then things may have been better with it. They're still not using it to stamp out diving and the sly little kicks, stamps and elbows though and for me that's a more pressing need than perfecting the art of working out offsides to a fraction of a millimetre or seeing if a ball brushed against the nail of an attackers finger to rule out a goal.
It's the fact that it isn't being used to stop cheating that makes it seem all the more corrupt.
I haven't seen a team cheat as regularly and systematically as Liverpool have over the last six or so years, they've mastered the art of diving and the sly rake of the studs down the back of opposition players ankles and other snidey tactics of a similar ilk. VAR isn't being used to stop this behaviour and is in fact rewarding it in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to diving for penalties as we now seem to live in the age of 'if there's contact he's entitled to go down' nonsense, no one is 'entitled to go down' you go down if you've been tripped, pushed or otherwise impeded, it isn't a decision a player makes themselves.
VAR has completely ripped the heart out of top level football in this country with the way it is being used to help Liverpool to the title. I can understand how you're a fan of it as it probably doesn't affect West Ham too often, at the start of the season you predicted you could finish eighth, which seems realistic, you probably had a few teams in mind that you would be battling with in and around that area of the table. I haven't watched any games this season apart from ours (because of the way VAR is being used) so I don't l know this for certain but I'm pretty sure that West Ham haven't been constantly on the wrong end of 'controversial' VAR decisions while your rivals have been on the right end of equally as 'controversial' decisions.
For us the situation is slightly different, we were aiming for one position in the table only, first, and we knew who our one serious rival was, Liverpool. We started the season pretty well but from week one we saw the way that the referees were using VAR and as the season went on I have watched the desire and fight drain from our players. Personally, I can't blame them for giving up because when you're trying to go toe to toe with a rival but you're playing the game to different rules, and you're the ones disadvantaged by the disparity between these different rulebooks, then it affects players mentally and as we know mentality is a huge part of the game these days.
Last season Liverpool got a lot of favourable decisions, they were constantly being rewarded for diving as referees were too scared to not give them the result they wanted, the press would crucify them for denying Liverpool a penalty but if they give one for a dive then it isn't mentioned anywhere and so they, quite naturally, take the easy option and give it. We hoped that VAR would stop this and give us a level playing field, but it hasn't, it's made it worse. This season for us we have been screwed over every single weekend, if we don't get screwed by VAR then Liverpool have been gifted points using VAR. We have had points taken of us and given to Liverpool, as have Chelsea, Leicester, Palace, Spurs, Everton and maybe Villa? There may be a couple of other teams that have been on the wrong end of Liverpool's VAR 'luck' but I can't remember them all as I don't watch their games anymore.
It's not just the last minute penalties from dives that have changed the season around, it's also the fact that even with VAR in play Liverpool are immune to cards and therefore none of their ever serve a suspension. Is there any other team that could have a player elbow drop an opposition player in the head during a derby game and then laugh in his face because he knew he was absolutely immune to any kind of action? If that had been any other team in the league it would have been called out for the shameless act of a coward and there would be repeat calls for the player to be banned but that doesn't happen to Liverpool. The same way they have carte blanche to push opposition players into hoardings with no threat of sanction, or stamp on players, or trip them as they are about to have a shot, etc, etc, etc.
This is what we have been playing against this season, I have seen the effect it has had on top class players who have dedicated their lives to being the best athlete they can in their chosen sport and it is awful to see them, as well as us as paying fans, be cheated out of being able to watch top quality athletes from 20 teams go at it over a season to see who comes out on top.
As you say, the referees have been terrible and most probably corrupt in other seasons but it's worse this season as the technology is there to make this a fair competition for all but instead it's being used to manipulate the league and that, to me at least, is an absolute disgrace and is the death knell of football as a sport in this country.

Excellent post.

 

[Johnred92]

Yeah, I'm becoming numb to these VAR decisions because there can't be many City fans who think that a VAR decision will eventually come to us in a game situation that turns the result.

I watched the City-Utd game. I’m not sure what decisions were wrong. The only debatable one was the handball at the end of the first half but the rules state it isn’t handball in that sort of incident when a player has his hand going to ground in order to not hurt himself.

Why did that game make you feel like it’s working against you?

 

[Chi-town blues]

Fuck var

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

One of the first instances of VAR being used, I think, was that warm-up competition that FICKFUFA run prior to a World Cup. I think the game was Chile v New Zealand. A New Zealander was tear-arsing down the wing and the Chilean delivered an elbow to the middle of the guys face. Blatant violence. The Chilean sees that his days are numbered, starts wagging his finger, the New Zealand guy is on the floor probably wondering which facial bone has been fractured, the ref tore across to have a look at the pitchside monitor, and then issued a yellow card for which he received a hearty round of applause from the Chilean thug. Apart from the violence the PL have operated a system much along the same lines - there are too many conclusions from VAR, a fair number that we have had to swallow, do not match what took place!

 

[abu13]

Agree but worse still imo is it doesnt fucking register with our own top brass.

They knew VAR wasn't in operation at Anfield, they know we have been fucked over constantly and they have imo gone along with it because cash is king and the bottom line the only thing that matters.

fans have been taken for a ride!

If there is any truth to this then there will be a very good reason why we have made the choice not to go public with this, I have said before that rather than us picking out incidents each week where things are going against us i suspect we are compiling a dossier of information to be used when we see fit.