VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[deano ou812]

Until VAR and refs are properly mic’d up like rugby so as those in ground more so and those watching at home,it’ll still have that feeling of they are trying to hide something.
Can someone answer me this is VAR in Spain Germany Italy and so on the same rules and so forth or does each league have their own set for VAR ?

 

[halfcenturyup]

In my job I regularly come across friends and colleagues from previous roles / companies etc - I never put myself in a position where I could be accused of showing bias.

I generally implement a self-imposed 'higher bar' on most aspects so that there is no recourse or suspicion and if it was to say employ a former colleague or friend etc, I would ensure that someone else conducts the interview without me present for the exact same reason...........

I suppose it depends what your job is?

Edit: And how easy it is to get around the "rules" by saying, in this case, a referee supports a lower level club. Does anyone believe the low number of referees that support United and Liverpool?

There is no problem an Arsenal-supporting KC chairing (or at least choosing the members of) our tribunal, for example, a process that can have catastrophic effects on the club if not done fairly. I don't think referees are any less trustworthy than lawyers, tbh.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Defo agree with what you said about Neville and when he says nothing to see here, the cameraman and sports editor obviously follows his lead and it's ignored. I've seen that countless times watching games and funnily enough it never happens when the red mardarses are playing.
Everyone can see through the bullshit whereas sky sports think that we're all blind.

He led the agenda to get utd off the hook when his club opened a gate or left it open and let all their fans on the pitch and got the game abandoned. I recall distinctly the 'oh, there's nothing to see here' and low and behold no charges were brought against them. He has massive influence and uses it regularly just like spitty.

 

[halfcenturyup]

This is the crucial point. The tech is not accurate for a decision based on a few millimetres because of the frame speed. So these very marginal decisions can’t be trusted. The way VAR is used must take account of the margin of error.

True of SAOT as well I think.

 

[supercity88]

This is the crucial point. The tech is not accurate for a decision based on a few millimetres because of the frame speed. So these very marginal decisions can’t be trusted. The way VAR is used must take account of the margin of error.

100%. They don't have the ability to see exactly when the ball left the foot and therefore when they freeze it and draw the lines they're potentially not using the right moment. You can't use that level of accuracy for one metric and not the other.

They'd be better just giving the benefit to the attacking side and allowing the goal in those tight calls.

As for the penalty decisions, I can't believe all three weren't given and whilst Forest shouldn't have thrown their toys out of the pram it's incredibly dodgy.

 

[halfcenturyup]

This whole Forest thing is heating up. Forest angry with PGMOL, Neville (!) angry with Forest, Forest writing to Sky threatening to sue, Clattenburg writing his DM column, PGMOL angry with Clattenburg (and he knows where plenty of bodies are buried) ....

Time for the PL to show their impressive skills of negotiation and reconciliation. Any chance, does anyone think?

 

[supercity88]

As i have said previously its very sinister how ratboy and spitty have started refereeing games by proxy, how many times on sunday during the fulham vs dippers game did an incident happen and ratboy just went nah theres nothing in that and the coverage was immediately moved on , whereas during the dippers game against us he was like ooh i think doku could be in trouble here and it was replayed about 84 times in desperate attempt to drive the narrative.

Neville is saying that clattenburg should resign from forest for stating a fact but sits quite comfortably at sky which he uses as his own personal propaganda channel, its a bit pot kettle back, the bigger problem for me is the way the press and the fa immediately went into overdrive saying that forest were wrong, clattenburg was wrong, nothing to see here and forest and clattenburg should be charged, sacked et al and the bigger question is why, there is clearly incompetence at best in attwells decisions but the immediate response is to mock forest whereas an actual response would be we understand your concerns we do not think there is any foundation to them with regards to our refs integrity but we have a duty of care to look into them and to try and uphold the best standards of refereeing available and whether you believe in conspiracy or not, it is plain to see that attwell is quite simply not fit for purpose, multiple high profile mistakes in multiple high profile games, not adhering to the laws of the game correctly and yet he still continues to ref and that alone is why pgmol should be looked at it because conspiracy theories or no conspiracy theories these refs are simply incompetent and pgmol is allowing that.

The first paragraph is spot on and dangerous. See below article on an incident in rugby recently. The TMO had seen an incident and dismissed it but the commentator on TV suggested it was foul play. The TMO and the TV commentators then had a discussion about the incident and when TNT then showed it again on TV the TMO was fuming because it made it look like he hadn't taken action.

If the commentators are influencing what is or isn't shown on replay then the VAR is in trouble. Sometimes I see incidents I think look like a pen, and I'm shocked to hear how quickly they're dismissed. You never get a replay of them. That's potentially all part of an agenda. You have to trust that the officials are seeing everything and making a call on every decision regardless of the commentators and TV coverage, but they'll definitely be influenced by it.

RFU backs TMO after TV commentary ‘distracted’ him during Farrell decision

The RFU insisted the TMO who appeared to ignore foul play on Saracens’ Owen Farrell was not influenced by the TV pundit Austin Healey spotting it first

www.theguardian.com

 

[manimanc]

The media are influencing decisions by officials. Some incidents are scrutinised and others are not. Why are fans not shown how the VAR process works at Stockley Park. We are the paying customers. It is clear that conversations are happening between officials and broadcasters while play is happening. The TV people get an early steer on decisions for starters. That can only happen if something comes out of Stockley Park.

Exactly. Neville 9 times out of 10 tells us the decision before VAR do, which kind of spoils the surprise or disappointment of the outcome.

Let's just remind ourselves of how sky sports report on things.

Aguero elbow incident ran for a week in a bid to get him banned.

The outrageous and fuckin scandalous Bernardo/Mendy joke between friends that sky sports ran and ran and made Bernardo look like a member of the kkk.

The continued accusations of fraud with the 115 charges.

Let's see how they report on all things red.

Klopp wanting a replay, ran for a week.

Utd and their "minor" breach ran for 1 day.

Cavani tweet. Two days if that then buried.

Media think fans are thick as fuck.

 

[BlueRockape]

Is it possible for someone with the right equipment to review these decisions from the TV pictures

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

This whole Forest thing is heating up. Forest angry with PGMOL, Neville (!) angry with Forest, Forest writing to Sky threatening to sue, Clattenburg writing his DM column, PGMOL angry with Clattenburg (and he knows where plenty of bodies are buried) ....

Time for the PL to show their impressive skills of negotiation and reconciliation. Any chance, does anyone think?

Tbh I hope the PL twat forest and their owner. Iv seen the replays and they were nowhere near as bad (mistakes) as the headlines. But their owner Marinakis (how the fuck he ended up owning a PL club when all the moan about is City owners I don't know) but he's brought in clattenburg for exactly these headlines about 'ex ref says decisions were wrong".

It's more political bullshit And is something, again, that didn't happen as much, if at all, without VAR.

Ditch VAR. Ditch Marinakis. That guy is a criminal plain and simple.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

This whole Forest thing is heating up. Forest angry with PGMOL, Neville (!) angry with Forest, Forest writing to Sky threatening to sue, Clattenburg writing his DM column, PGMOL angry with Clattenburg (and he knows where plenty of bodies are buried) ....

Time for the PL to show their impressive skills of negotiation and reconciliation. Any chance, does anyone think?

Is this the same thing as a sledgehammer?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

The first paragraph is spot on and dangerous. See below article on an incident in rugby recently. The TMO had seen an incident and dismissed it but the commentator on TV suggested it was foul play. The TMO and the TV commentators then had a discussion about the incident and when TNT then showed it again on TV the TMO was fuming because it made it look like he hadn't taken action.

If the commentators are influencing what is or isn't shown on replay then the VAR is in trouble. Sometimes I see incidents I think look like a pen, and I'm shocked to hear how quickly they're dismissed. You never get a replay of them. That's potentially all part of an agenda. You have to trust that the officials are seeing everything and making a call on every decision regardless of the commentators and TV coverage, but they'll definitely be influenced by it.

RFU backs TMO after TV commentary ‘distracted’ him during Farrell decision

The RFU insisted the TMO who appeared to ignore foul play on Saracens’ Owen Farrell was not influenced by the TV pundit Austin Healey spotting it first

www.theguardian.com

Remember the Aguero Reid elbow incident which was clearly seen by the Ref as he was looking straight at it. This was subsequently played on a loop by Sky Sports with Neville and co saying it should have been a red. And low and behold PMGOL suddenly announce that the ref didn't see it, and Aguero gets a red card 4 days later.

 

[meltonblue]

This is the crucial point. The tech is not accurate for a decision based on a few millimetres because of the frame speed. So these very marginal decisions can’t be trusted. The way VAR is used must take account of the margin of error.

It does though to be fair, that’s why the thicker lines are applied.

 

[mancboy]

Tbh I hope the PL twat forest and their owner. Iv seen the replays and they were nowhere near as bad (mistakes) as the headlines. But their owner Marinakis (how the fuck he ended up owning a PL club when all the moan about is City owners I don't know) but he's brought in clattenburg for exactly these headlines about 'ex ref says decisions were wrong".

It's more political bullshit And is something, again, that didn't happen as much, if at all, without VAR.

Ditch VAR. Ditch Marinakis. That guy is a criminal plain and simple.

aint nobody clean in the prem but for a long time they have muddled along under the threat of masd, it seems like a few of them are willing to burn the whole thing to the ground and take everyone down

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It does though to be fair, that’s why the thicker lines are applied.

Not when the lines are clearly not put in the correct place. IE over the top of Wan Bisakas foot. Is that just simple human error yet again?

 

[KentBlue]

All of us saw this coming, each and every single one of us, genuine football fans (not those plastic fickle rag/dipper followers who wouldn't know the UK on a map). The way the whole Sly set up has been consistently kow-towing to the redshirts it was inevitable that it would explode in their faces...eventually. And this is precisely what we are seeing here. The sport used to be for us, the supporters, but Sly hijacked it and turned into the fucking Super Bowl: razzamatazz and cheer-leaders, Hollywood style ticker-tape parades and all the rest of the showbiz bullshit.
Pgmol have been manipulating results so that their favourites will always be in and around the top six and in Cup Finals at Wembley for decades to come.

I began to get suspicious when that vile pisscan was at the rags and somehow or other every 50/50 decision benefitted the vermin. Ginger pig being applauded for two-footed lunges on opposition players, and the likes of Tyler and Andy Gray sniggering and saying things like "Paul's back. Good ol' Scholesy."
You'd see the Govan despot striding along the touchline, eager to launch an abusive tirade against an official because something hasn't gone his way, and Sly encouraging it all.


The focus right now is on the whole Forest thing, rightly so: but it's also conveniently covering up the fact that Coventry City were robbed of a cup final place in favour of the verminous rags.

 

[M18CTID]

Atwell is a Luton fan and isn't allowed to ref their games, this is why forest claim they asked for him to be removed from VAR duty

In that case, he should've been absolutely nowhere near that Forest match

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Remember the Aguero Reid elbow incident which was clearly seen by the Ref as he was looking straight at it. This was subsequently played on a loop by Sky Sports with Neville and co saying it should have been a red. And low and behold PMGOL suddenly announce that the ref didn't see it, and Aguero gets a red card 4 days later.

Right before the Derby IIRC.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

The tech is already available, hopefully everyone will be accept it like they have in UEFA competitions, the final decision and 3D render result it produces.

At least it takes it out of the hands of a VAR official telling tech guys what angle & frame and how many pixels across to line things up against.

It's certainly "better" (quicker) but what's the margin of error? If we don't know that then how do we know that it's ok to use?

 

[Stephen230]

In that case, he should've been absolutely nowhere near that Forest match

Forest didn’t ask for him to be removed from the match. There is a set procedure for clubs to express their concerns about appointments and Forest didn’t use it. Just as they didn’t on other occasions when Atwell has been involved in matches involving relegation threatened teams.

They were clearly waiting with their little Tweet for the right opportunity to fire it off. If the Everton game had passed without incident, it would still be in their draft Tweets, ready for another day.