VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[Stephen230]

One of the biggest contradictions for referees (and I've experienced the same whilst cricket umpiring in recent years) is that people scream for both consistency and common sense, when in reality, they're mutually exclusive.
Last night Taylor waved "play-on" after a blatant shirt pull by Joelinton, and there was a natural assumption that he'd give a yellow card at the next stoppage.
Similarly, United's Dalot was given a second yellow card for dissent at Anfield when we've all seen referees ignore similar offences.
City got a penalty at Old Trafford for the first time in PL history, but didn't get one at Arsenal for a far more blatant shirt-pull just a few weeks previously.
How many times have we seen a City player get a yellow card at the ETIHAD when the referee has just tolerated 5-6 previous "soft" fouls by cynical opponents?
Two foul throws at Luton v City, but similar offences ignored at virtually every fixture.

Instead of resolving this inconsistency VAR has actually magnified the issue.

You’re bang on with that. It’s something I’ve often thought. Managers and pundits constantly calling for ‘consistency’ AND ‘common sense’ are simultaneously calling for two polar opposites.

It goes back way before VAR days aswell. How many times have you heard a manager slagging off a referee for dishing out a few cards when “there wasn’t a bad foul in the whole game” The following week he’s blaming him for not giving out a second yellow to an opposition player because ‘rules are rules’ and then when he does get round to booking someone, it’s back to the old ‘common sense’

Nothing much has changed in that regard. Other than these days, there’s a million people sat at computers ready to instantly produce two similar images, often weeks or even months apart, demanding to know why they were adjudicated differently.

I do happen to know that the Dalot sending off wasn’t viewed particularly favourably. Whilst it wasn’t strictly speaking a mistake or a wrong decision, the feeling was that Oliver was far too hasty with the second yellow. And they’d expect an incident like that in future to be dealt with differently, rather than it to set a benchmark.

 

[BlueHammer85]

All 3 decisions were given by the ref though, so would have stood if VAR didn't exist

Yeh but that’s fine, no one minded farcical decisions being given apparently, all was fine, we all just laughed and accepted Salah and Kane diving with no contact being awarded penalties , Man Utd getting away with pretty much everything and consequently winning far more trophies. No one even celebrates goals anymore, watch when a goal is scored , the fans just stand there in silence.

 

[Bill the Blue]

Yeah, I don’t think you’ve read my posts suggesting that all the decisions that you mentioned were all wrong.

If you think that’s banging a drum, all power to you.

If you want to rant about conspiracy theories, go for it. Loads will join in and love it.

Who's ranting ?

Conspiracy theories you say ?

I've been watching football for over 50 years and like to think that I've got a bit of an understanding of how things work..

Football is such a simple game that unfortunately has been ruined by the powers that be..

VAR was sold as the savior of football, no more Alf Grey moments, no more Spurs having goals not given at the swamp when the ball was 3 foot over the line and so on and so on..

Tell me, if VAR is as good as it says on the tin why can..

Nobody explain what a handball offence is..?

Nobody explain what subjective means..?

Nobody explain why the 2 biggest clubs in England can get away with not having large screens installed in their stadia..?

Nobody explain why there is no transparency in a multi £billion pound sport..?

Nobody explain why Anfield appears to have sections of their field of play that are not covered by VAR cameras..?

Nobody explain why faceless individuals can be given the power to decide if a goal is to be allowed or not and then not having to face up and explain their decisions after the game has ended..?

VAR does itself absolutely no favours whatsoever and until it is laid bare and subjected to scrutiny, transparency and openness, it will remain tainted to say the least..

 

[Andy TheCatalyst Morrison]

You’re bang on with that. It’s something I’ve often thought. Managers and pundits constantly calling for ‘consistency’ AND ‘common sense’ are simultaneously calling for two polar opposites.

It goes back way before VAR days aswell. How many times have you heard a manager slagging off a referee for dishing out a few cards when “there wasn’t a bad foul in the whole game” The following week he’s blaming him for not giving out a second yellow to an opposition player because ‘rules are rules’ and then when he does get round to booking someone, it’s back to the old ‘common sense’

Nothing much has changed in that regard. Other than these days, there’s a million people sat at computers ready to instantly produce two similar images, often weeks or even months apart, demanding to know why they were adjudicated differently.

I do happen to know that the Dalot sending off wasn’t viewed particularly favourably. Whilst it wasn’t strictly speaking a mistake or a wrong decision, the feeling was that Oliver was far too hasty with the second yellow. And they’d expect an incident like that in future to be dealt with differently, rather than it to set a benchmark.

Why are consistency and common sense polar opposites? You can consistently apply common sense.

 

[Bill the Blue]

All 3 decisions were given by the ref though, so would have stood if VAR didn't exist

Isn't the whole point of VAR to correct the mistakes the refs make to improve the game and get to the right decisions ?

VAR gave all 3 decisions too so saying the refs gave them is irrelevant as VAR didn't change any of them.

In all 3 instances VAR failed..

Therefore what's the point of VAR ..

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Who's ranting ?

Conspiracy theories you say ?

I've been watching football for over 50 years and like to think that I've got a bit of an understanding of how things work..

Football is such a simple game that unfortunately has been ruined by the powers that be..

VAR was sold as the savior of football, no more Alf Grey moments, no more Spurs having goals not given at the swamp when the ball was 3 foot over the line and so on and so on..

Tell me, if VAR is as good as it says on the tin why can..

Nobody explain what a handball offence is..?

Nobody explain what subjective means..?

Nobody explain why the 2 biggest clubs in England can get away with not having large screens installed in their stadia..?

Nobody explain why there is no transparency in a multi £billion pound sport..?

Nobody explain why Anfield appears to have sections of their field of play that are not covered by VAR cameras..?

Nobody explain why faceless individuals can be given the power to decide if a goal is to be allowed or not and then not having to face up and explain their decisions after the game has ended..?

VAR does itself absolutely no favours whatsoever and until it is laid bare and subjected to scrutiny, transparency and openness, it will remain tainted to say the least..

It’s the 50 camera angles that can see every incident (barring the ball going out near Arsenal’s goal) that is causing the problems along with everybody now having an instant opinion online coupled with Whataboutery.

Refereeing is in an existential crisis where VAR can’t rereferee, unless x,y or z happens. Webb needs binning and the approach changing.

 

[Stephen230]

Why are consistency and common sense polar opposites? You can consistently apply common sense.

Because what a manager inevitably actually means by ‘common sense’ is for a referee to ignore the laws of the game in certain circumstances that benefit his side.

 

[Andy TheCatalyst Morrison]

Because what a manager inevitably actually means by ‘common sense’ is for a referee to ignore the laws of the game in certain circumstances that benefit his side.

That doesn’t make common sense and consistency incompatible. In fact, what you’re basically saying is that managers don’t want consistency either, they want all decisions in their favour.

I just think that saying that consistency and common sense are polar opposites is something that sounds clever but doesn’t actually stand up to scrutiny

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

All 3 decisions were given by the ref though, so would have stood if VAR didn't exist

Which in itself tells you everything you need to know about the on-field referee's (flawed at best) decision-making and illustrates where VARs clear and obvious thresholds for making the "correct decision" fall apart.

If the ref gives it, VAR tends not to over-rule, and, as we all know, there's "unintentional" bias at play in these decision-making processes.

VAR was the opportunity to rid football of this "unintentional" bias, but answer me this, do you think it has? or do you still see a pattern that some teams get more of a rub of the green than others?

The on-field ref made questionable decisions before VAR and those decisions stood.
The on-field ref makes questionable decisions with VAR and those decisions still stand.

 

[Blue Mist]

What is this svar nonsense in our cup game, apparently the var now needs an assistant, for the life of me i cant understand why it needs two useless dickheads to make an incorrect decision, one seemed to be doing fine

@mancboy everybody is too busy argueing with the resident wum to answer. I was going to ask the same question after reading about it earlier. Reading about it but not having a clue what the job entails. Apparently Taylor is the SVAR. As if there isn't enough shite to spoil our enjoyment.

Edit. The SVAR is there to assist the Var and the assistant Var. No seriously I'm not making it up. The two useless tossers will now be joined in FA Cup matches by another useless tosser. As Morrissey once said 'this joke isn't funny anymore'