VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[halfcenturyup]

“With VAR we see some things that are going in a direction that we may need to re-adjust,” IFAB general secretary Lukas Brud told the BBC."

“If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand."

“What we really need to stress is that 'clear and obvious' applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee."

“In theory, 1mm offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand."

“This is the problem. People are trying to be too forensic. We are not looking to make a better decision, we are trying to get rid of the clear and obvious mistakes."

Well, halle fucking lujah. Now sort it out ....

And the same with handball, please.

How the above reconciles with SAOT, though, is anyone's guess.

 

[Stephen230]

“With VAR we see some things that are going in a direction that we may need to re-adjust,” IFAB general secretary Lukas Brud told the BBC."

“If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand."

“What we really need to stress is that 'clear and obvious' applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee."

“In theory, 1mm offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand."

“This is the problem. People are trying to be too forensic. We are not looking to make a better decision, we are trying to get rid of the clear and obvious mistakes."

Well, halle fucking lujah. Now sort it out ....

And the same with handball, please.

How the above reconciles with SAOT, though, is anyone's guess.

That directly contradicts just about everything that IFAB have ever said previously regarding off side.

They have always been at pains to stress that offside is a factual decision that falls outside of the ‘clear and obvious’ remit.

 

[dadnlad]

So he got storming in to the referees changing room after a game, crying about whatever decisions he wasn’t happy with that day and is complaining that the linesman was eating a sandwich? Jesus.

Hes right though at swamp it would be 3 course meal

 

[halfcenturyup]

That directly contradicts just about everything that IFAB have ever said previously regarding off side.

They have always been at pains to stress that offside is a factual decision that falls outside of the ‘clear and obvious’ remit.

This was the same guy in 2019. From the Independent:

Football’s law-makers have suggested that the Premier League are not using the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) system correctly by reiterating that it should only be used to correct “clear and obvious” errors, and should not be relied upon to try and pinpoint marginal offside calls that require lengthy stoppages to identify.

"Clear and obvious still remains - it's an important principle. There should not be a lot of time spent to find something marginal," Lukas Brud, Ifab’s general secretary, told the Press Association.

"If something is not clear on the first sight, then it's not obvious and it shouldn't be considered. Looking at one camera angle is one thing but looking at 15, trying to find something that was potentially not even there, this was not the idea of the VAR principle. It should be clear and obvious."

Maybe you are thinking of the terrible twins Wenger and Collina from FIFA who have a stricter view on offsides? Not sure how that works, as it's IFAB that makes the laws.

 

[halfcenturyup]

This was the same guy in 2019. From the Independent:

Football’s law-makers have suggested that the Premier League are not using the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) system correctly by reiterating that it should only be used to correct “clear and obvious” errors, and should not be relied upon to try and pinpoint marginal offside calls that require lengthy stoppages to identify.

"Clear and obvious still remains - it's an important principle. There should not be a lot of time spent to find something marginal," Lukas Brud, Ifab’s general secretary, told the Press Association.

"If something is not clear on the first sight, then it's not obvious and it shouldn't be considered. Looking at one camera angle is one thing but looking at 15, trying to find something that was potentially not even there, this was not the idea of the VAR principle. It should be clear and obvious."

Maybe you are thinking of the terrible twins Wenger and Collina from FIFA who have a stricter view on offsides? Not sure how that works, as it's IFAB that makes the laws.

Well, bugger me sideways, I had a look at IFAB's VAR protocol. It says this for the check procedure (my bolded emphasis for the two points about clear and obvious and about slow motion replays ...):

• The VAR automatically ‘checks’ the TV camera footage for every potential or actual goal, penalty or direct red card decision/incident, or a case of mistaken identity, using different camera angles and replay speeds
• The VAR can ‘check’ the footage in normal speed and/or in slow motion but, in general, slow motion replays should only be used for facts, e.g. position of offence/player, point of contact for physical offences and handball, ball out of play (including goal/no goal); normal speed should be used for the ‘intensity’ of an offence or to decide if it was a handball offence
• If the ‘check’ does not indicate a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’, there is usually no need for the VAR to communicate with the referee – this is a ‘silent check’; however, it sometimes helps the referee/assistant referee to manage the players/match if the VAR confirms that no ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ occurred
• If the restart of play needs to be delayed for a ‘check’, the referee will signal this by clearly holding a finger to the earpiece/headset and extending the other hand/arm; this signal must be maintained until the ‘check’ is complete as it announces that the referee is receiving information (which may be from the VAR or another match official)
• If the ‘check’ indicates a probable ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’, the VAR will communicate this information to the referee, who will then decide whether or not to initiate a ‘review’

 

[Stephen230]

This was the same guy in 2019. From the Independent:

Football’s law-makers have suggested that the Premier League are not using the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) system correctly by reiterating that it should only be used to correct “clear and obvious” errors, and should not be relied upon to try and pinpoint marginal offside calls that require lengthy stoppages to identify.

"Clear and obvious still remains - it's an important principle. There should not be a lot of time spent to find something marginal," Lukas Brud, Ifab’s general secretary, told the Press Association.

"If something is not clear on the first sight, then it's not obvious and it shouldn't be considered. Looking at one camera angle is one thing but looking at 15, trying to find something that was potentially not even there, this was not the idea of the VAR principle. It should be clear and obvious."

Maybe you are thinking of the terrible twins Wenger and Collina from FIFA who have a stricter view on offsides? Not sure how that works, as it's IFAB that makes the laws.

I should probably have said, it contradicts everything I can remember reading.

The above quote bares no relation to how VAR has ever been used in any league or competition regarding offside.

 

[wattle]

As Phil previously said ….

‘How much better can you expect one to be? I mean, these are professional referees with years of training. Being able to call a correct decision with the benefit of multiple slo mo replays shouldn’t be that fucking hard ‘

Genuinely don’t know the answer.

Hope to get officials that get every single easy decision correct 100% of the time. I don’t have faith that will happen.
Take away VAR and the decision making is even more farcical.

Even more farcical when 3 or 4 of them get it wrong at the same time

 

[wattle]

Not quite 99.9%

View attachment 105698

Almost two thirds of football fans oppose VAR, survey finds

The FSA heard from 9,645 fans in March and April

www.independent.co.uk

VAR survey: 40 per cent of fans likely to turn away from live football

The survey also found that 95 per cent of fans who had experienced VAR in stadiums and 94 per cent who had watched matches on TV with VAR decisions said that the setup had made watching matches less enjoyable; 95 per cent also unhappy about removal of spontaneous joy of goal celebrations

www.skysports.com

The 2023 VAR survey results - Scottish Football Supporters Association - SFSA

The SFSA's initial VAR survey, carried out during last year’s World Cup, produced pretty unequivocal results. At that time, VAR had only been in place for a few months but fans, in general, were not very happy with what they had seen up to that point. Following on from this, the SFSA has...

scottishfsa.org

There’s lots lots more

 

[halfcenturyup]

I should probably have said, it contradicts everything I can remember reading.

The above quote bares no relation to how VAR has ever been used in any league or competition regarding offside.

Well, quite.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Almost two thirds of football fans oppose VAR, survey finds

The FSA heard from 9,645 fans in March and April

www.independent.co.uk

VAR survey: 40 per cent of fans likely to turn away from live football

The survey also found that 95 per cent of fans who had experienced VAR in stadiums and 94 per cent who had watched matches on TV with VAR decisions said that the setup had made watching matches less enjoyable; 95 per cent also unhappy about removal of spontaneous joy of goal celebrations

www.skysports.com

The 2023 VAR survey results - Scottish Football Supporters Association - SFSA

The SFSA's initial VAR survey, carried out during last year’s World Cup, produced pretty unequivocal results. At that time, VAR had only been in place for a few months but fans, in general, were not very happy with what they had seen up to that point. Following on from this, the SFSA has...

scottishfsa.org

There’s lots lots more

Not quite 99.9% then