VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[Blueknows]

I will laugh is the only audio they release is "Check complete."

Would love to hear the conversation at last years derby at the swamp

 

[TinFoilHat]

Would love to hear the conversation at last years derby at the swamp

Me too.

Convinced some one said "Fuck it, it's City. Goal!"

 

[halfcenturyup]

I'm not sure tbh. In principle, VAR should benefit the game overall and would do if used professionally.

You only have to look at both Rugby and Cricket to see it's value.

It beggars belief that the FA are not willing to make the system transparent and ensure fans can see and hear what is being discussed and why For me there are two reasons for that

Firstly, it would highlight the poor level of refereeing standards that exist in the PL and secondly (and worse), it allows decisions to be made by faceless souls who have no accountability.

This will fester until more clubs do as Liverpool did and publicly kick off.

Agree with you, except live broadcast of the discussions wouldn't have made any difference at Spurs. They got the decision right, they say. They communicated it wrongly. They can say "check complete"* live as well. Referee immediately blows his whistle and the game has restarted. Too late.

Seems to me this is the least interesting of their cock-ups from the audio point of view and from an intellectual point of view. It was just an "honest" mistake. It will be funny as fuck to hear the audio, though, as they realise their mistake. :)

* Incidentally, all PGMOL have to do is say protocol has been changed immediately to a positive confirmation, whatever the outcome: no offside, no other offence, goal stands. Not "check complete". Will never happen again. Idiots.

Anyway, enough from me on this :) You will be pleased to know.

 

[MikeF]

I was hopeful that when Mike Riley fecked off that things would improve…

 

[BobbyBoy]

Quick summary from 2 year ago from 30 second Google. Look at the numbers and divide by 20. Then ask yourself is it worth it?

Is adding 8 minutes on to matches worth it to correct 5 decisions in a season? Is having the spontaneity taken away from every goal worth it? Maybe in 3 or 4 big games per season is it worth it but for the overall picture its just not. The correct decision isn't the be all and end all, we're being sold that like its fact. I always thought the phrase:it evens itself out over the season" to be complete bullshit but I'd take that over this nonsense.

Total overturns: 120
Rejected overturns: 0

Leading to goals: 47
Leading to disallowed goals: 43
Penalties awarded: 38 (6 missed)
Pens for handball: 15
Penalties overturned: 9 (1 for offside, 3 on position)
Penalties retakes (GK/DEF encroach): 2
Penalties retakes (ATT encroach): 1 (1 missed)
Goals ruled out for offside: 32
Goals awarded after incorrect offside: 11
Goals ruled out for handball: 3
Goals allowed after wrong handball: 0
Goals ruled out for a foul: 8
Red cards: 13
Overturned red cards: 3

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Agree with you, except live broadcast of the discussions wouldn't have made any difference at Spurs. They got the decision right, they say. They communicated it wrongly. They can say "check complete"* live as well. Referee immediately blows his whistle and the game has restarted. Too late.

Blowing the whistle didn't stop them awarding a penalty at the Swamp after the game had finished.

 

[55yr old teenager]

SSN have just confirmed that Livarpool have now got the audio.

 

[TinFoilHat]

SSN have just confirmed that Livarpool have now got the audio.

Jimmy Liddel will edit it accordingly...

 

[M18CTID]

Can you imagine if the audio does indeed show the VAR mob thinking it was given as a goal on the field and saying something along the lines of "No need to check this one lads - let's keep it as a Liverpool goal as we normally would in this situation"

Cue Liverpool destroying the recording and wishing they'd never asked for it!

 

[madloaf]

Quick summary from 2 year ago from 30 second Google. Look at the numbers and divide by 20. Then ask yourself is it worth it?

Is adding 8 minutes on to matches worth it to correct 5 decisions in a season? Is having the spontaneity taken away from every goal worth it? Maybe in 3 or 4 big games per season is it worth it but for the overall picture its just not. The correct decision isn't the be all and end all, we're being sold that like its fact. I always thought the phrase:it evens itself out over the season" to be complete bullshit but I'd take that over this nonsense.

Total overturns: 120
Rejected overturns: 0

Leading to goals: 47
Leading to disallowed goals: 43
Penalties awarded: 38 (6 missed)
Pens for handball: 15
Penalties overturned: 9 (1 for offside, 3 on position)
Penalties retakes (GK/DEF encroach): 2
Penalties retakes (ATT encroach): 1 (1 missed)
Goals ruled out for offside: 32
Goals awarded after incorrect offside: 11
Goals ruled out for handball: 3
Goals allowed after wrong handball: 0
Goals ruled out for a foul: 8
Red cards: 13
Overturned red cards: 3

Couldn't agree more. I've added a couple of stats:

Number of times you've started to celebrate a goal and then remembered VAR: 378
Number of times you've felt like accuracy was more important than entertainment when it comes to football: 0

 

[halfcenturyup]

SSN have just confirmed that Livarpool have now got the audio.

Precedent set. Now, about that goal at Old Trafford .....

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Absolutely - I know some aren't convinced the tech is that good, but it's still a lot better than a man with a flag.

There would have many more goals incorrectly given/ruled out before.

If the tech doesn’t work why is that better than allowing the sport to continue in the way it has for 150 yrs?

Worse than that, the authorities say the tech is perfect. The calls are black and white. This is deceitful and wrong. The tech will get better of course, but the offside tech now isn’t accurate enough to be reliable

 

[bluenova]

Blowing the whistle didn't stop them awarding a penalty at the Swamp after the game had finished.

It's not the same as play hadn't restarted, it had just continued.

VAR can make a decision while play continues, and then once the ball goes dead, the ref stops to wait for the check to complete. In the Liverpool case, the ball was dead from the goal, so the check had to be done before it restarted. Once it had restarted they weren't allowed to stop it - although if they'd immediately noticed and shouted out I suspect they'd have got away with stopping it.

The problem with going back is that Spurs could then have argued that the rules were deliberately broken, which would have been another mess.

 

[bluenova]

If the tech doesn’t work why is that better than allowing the sport to continue in the way it has for 150 yrs?

Worse than that, the authorities say the tech is perfect. The calls are black and white. This is deceitful and wrong. The tech will get better of course, but the offside tech now isn’t accurate enough to be reliable

I didn't say it didn't work. I understand it has limitations, but they are nothing compared with a human trying to look in two directions at once.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

I didn't say it didn't work. I understand it has limitations, but they are nothing compared with a human trying to look in two directions at once.

It’s not accurate at present. So you then have a choice: take the inaccurate tech (which you are told is accurate) and all that comes with it (delayed goal celebrations, etc) or go back to the human system until the tech improves (which it will). Your opinion may be different to mine but I’d go for the latter

 

[dadnlad]

All this technology and for me the best is your own eyes rule! Freeze the frame when the ball leaves the foot to the attacker and just look at that freeze frame if you can see it's ofside call it if yours eyes can't see it's ofside it's fine! This mm red blue lines is madness!

Or just bring the auto ofside in! Wonde they Liverpool not banging the drum about that? Or any other club?

think trouble with that is some grounds have better coverage of pitch than others ( more cameras or better positioning )

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

All this technology and for me the best is your own eyes rule! Freeze the frame when the ball leaves the foot to the attacker and just look at that freeze frame if you can see it's ofside call it if yours eyes can't see it's ofside it's fine! This mm red blue lines is madness!

Or just bring the auto ofside in! Wonde they Liverpool not banging the drum about that? Or any other club?

The only plausible reason I think the club voted against SAT for offside is cost. Given what they get from the TV deal this is a fairly shit excuse if correct!

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

It’s not accurate at present. So you then have a choice: take the inaccurate tech (which you are told is accurate) and all that comes with it (delayed goal celebrations, etc) or go back to the human system until the tech improves (which it will). Your opinion may be different to mine but I’d go for the latter

50fps leaves a huge margin of error when you have a forward running at full pelt.

If you look at Haaland at a top speed of just over 10m/s, which equates to about 20cm per frame of video.

 

[dadnlad]

Precedent set. Now, about that goal at Old Trafford .....

sadly destroryed shortly after restart

 

[Blueknows]

Me too.

Convinced some one said "Fuck it, it's City. Goal!"

Especially as the lino had his flag up