VAR (PL introduction 2019)

[tonea2003]

Him amongst others. I've said this plenty of times as an outsider as I'm not English. How on earth do you expect your players to understand how to play at international level when they play under different rules domestically? How do you expect your young players to develop a big game mentality and perform under pressure when they're allowed to behave like petulant and at times violent 10 year olds week in, week out?

Sergio Ramos is a great example, been highly rated in Spain since he was about 14. Plays for the biggest Spanish club and is a mainstay in the national team and a Spanish sporting hero. Holds the La Liga record for red cards.

different rules? which are different? are we talking the application?

 

[aguero93:20]

different rules? which are different? are we talking the application?

Yes, application. The application that frequently sees certain players get into double figures for fouls before being booked, that sees 'tackles' that are straight reds anywhere else in the world become yellows, that sees certain players follow the referee around complaining and abusing them for 90 minutes, that sees consistent divers consistently rewarded, do I need to go on?

Think they call it "game management" or something these days.

 

[tonea2003]

Yes, application. The application that frequently sees certain players get into double figures for fouls before being booked, that sees 'tackles' that are straight reds anywhere else in the world become yellows, that sees certain players follow the referee around complaining and abusing them for 90 minutes, that sees consistent divers consistently rewarded, do I need to go on?

Think they call it "game management" or something these days.

is there a specific directive we know about "game management" because to my eyes there is no consistency which is the real issue. some games you are left wondering how a card hasn't been given up to a certain point and others where virtually the first tackle gets a yellow.

if var allows us eventually to get consistency and the correct decisions, its got to be a good thing

 

[aguero93:20]

is there a specific directive we know about "game management" because to my eyes there is no consistency which is the real issue. some games you are left wondering how a card hasn't been given up to a certain point and others where virtually the first tackle gets a yellow.

if var allows us eventually to get consistency and the correct decisions, its got to be a good thing

There's plenty of consistency if you know which parameters to set.

Agree with the second paragraph. It needs refined and improved but it's for the better overall.

 

[SilverFox2]

is there a specific directive we know about "game management" because to my eyes there is no consistency which is the real issue. some games you are left wondering how a card hasn't been given up to a certain point and others where virtually the first tackle gets a yellow.

if var allows us eventually to get consistency and the correct decisions, its got to be a good thing

Yes I think anything that eliminates either human error or bias within a ref is a good thing.
In fact during change period surely more delays the better for change that is because it highlights just how much their interpretation of the rules has strayed from the actual rule book itself.
Presumably they will then get a consistent opinion of events and the number of delays will decrease.

 

[tonea2003]

There's plenty of consistency if you know which parameters to set.

Agree with the second paragraph. It needs refined and improved but it's for the better overall.

surely the parameters are the laws? just apply them.
it might take a game or two that reduces the game to 9 v 8 or something by applying the laws as stated.
i'm all for contact in the game but within the laws.
to let things go early on to then apply them later on is just plain ridiculous.

 

[Silva2021]

It’s easy to see that club loyalty will cloud judgement of the VAR decisions. Unlike the goal line technology which was overdue and leaves nothing open to debate. This has peoples views blurred depending who it benefits.

For my view I think he got the first one right and probably the second although I think it was quite fortunate and opens a different question.

The first he was offside the blocking/ pushing I think is around 50/50, I wouldn’t expect a penalty but likewise I don’t think a goal should be disallowed for blocking but yes offside. Ironically if he had pushed him further the goal might have stood.

On the second Livermore did pull him back, regardless of whether Salah would have got there makes it any less of a foul. However he did go down easier then needed and in the past it would have been difficult to spot and in a lot of ways it use to benefit players who where strong and honest who would have tried to carry on, now it will benefit the ones who hit the deck regardless on whether the contact causes that.

The ref last night I thought handled the 2 well. The first goal the decision was taken from him. The second he did not want to give in my view (either because WBA had just had one go against them, or it highlighted he would have made 2 mistakes), so he viewed it himself and made sure he was happy on the decision.

Side point - I’m sure there are many others as well but Vidic would suffer based on this rule, half his game was knowing when to hold a player and when to let go as to not be caught.

 

[aguero93:20]

surely the parameters are the laws? just apply them.
it might take a game or two that reduces the game to 9 v 8 or something by applying the laws as stated.
i'm all for contact in the game but within the laws.
to let things go early on to then apply them later on is just plain ridiculous.

Agree with what you've said totally, but right now we have a game where it took Dembele 9 bad enough fouls to be booked last week, where Alli gets away with murder on a weekly basis and where a Yeovil player was booked after 24 seconds on Friday for charging down a clearance.
If England ever want to win anything at international level again, the domestic game needs to evolve to the point where kicking people and 5 minute goal kicks aren't seen as tactical brilliance. Where any pundit suggesting a team should foul the opponent as much as possible has just made their last TV appearance and to where young English players are not only held to the same standards as everyone else but expected to lead by example.

I read an interview on the Aymeric Laporte thread yesterday where he's 20 years old and talking about marking systems, positioning, video analysis and tactics. Athletic are on an equivalent level with Everton. Mason Holgate is probably getting coached on "hitting row Z, letting him know you're there and attacking the man not the ball at set pieces".

 

[SilverFox2]

Seems that a certain amount of shirt holding or deliberate obstruction is being allowed by refs in the penalty areas.

Have often wondered whether the penalty area should be the same for both sides and any deliberate defensive or offensive foul in any sides area should have the same result.
Currently attackers risk only a free kick against for an offence whereas defenders risk everything.

Would attackers be so physical if they also risked a penalty for ignoring the rule book ?
Similarly diving may have fewer occurances if a ref and var result in a penalty against the attacker.

Not realistic I suppose but if the risks are equal in either penalty area perhaps the refs would have less to do.

 

[Bozo]

Only just seen the highlights of Liverpool v West Brom, what a ridiculous game. Would hate for VAR to play that much of a part in a City game. Score a goal, but wait for it to be confirmed first...