VAR (PL introduction 2019)

stonerblue said:
Yet again i wake up to another VAR controversy, this time at wembley in an international friendly. If the daft fuckers can't get it right at the 'home' of football, in a purpose built stadium with the full weight of Fifa's backing, in a friendly then how the hell are they ever gonna get it right?
And don't give me this, 'oh it'll take time to get right' or 'as long as the result is 'fair' nonsense cos they've had plenty of time and practice to do that and still it's a fucking shambles.
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Sorry, but how many decisions are controversially given without VAR ?
All pundits agreed after the match, it is a penalty. It may be soft. but it was a penalty. How is it fair that this would otherwise not be given ? we would be screaming at the Ref in the World Cup if he misses a foul and we should have had a pen.

Fans have just taken it for granted that an incorrect decision can determine a result, that’s crazy in my mind but we all just accept it....well until it happens to our club then we all go mental.

Imagine we ALWAYS had var and then it was taken away? People just don’t like change

yes it's going to take a while to get used too and possibly too soon for the World Cup but this is absolutely the way forward
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Sorry, but how many decisions are controversially given without VAR ?
All pundits agreed after the match, it is a penalty. It may be soft. but it was a penalty. How is it fair that this would otherwise not be given ? we would be screaming at the Ref in the World Cup if he misses a foul and we should have had a pen.

Fans have just taken it for granted that an incorrect decision can determine a result, that’s crazy in my mind but we all just accept it....well until it happens to our club then we all go mental.

Imagine we ALWAYS had var and then it was taken away? People just don’t like change

yes it's going to take a while to get used too and possibly too soon for the World Cup but this is absolutely the way forward
Click to expand...
Its currently shite though.

Take the so called rules for its use....

"Clear and obvious" error, the referee last night gave a corner, didn't see a foul, so someone told him to review it, fine, but where was "clear and obvious" ?

Look at the so called "foul", which one ? The referee didn't see one, there could be two, the pull back from Young, or the accidental treading on the player who was already going down ? Nothing Tarkowski could do about the tread so for me that's not a foul, its accidental contact.

So its reviewed and (as some have said) the "right decision" given.

Now there are 70,000 fans in the stadium, and none of them (nor the referee) see the "foul", and yet are now rewarded with a last minute (ish) penalty.

Finally, not one of the paying fans get to see the "clear and obvious" error for the "foul", yet millions watching on TC get multiple replays, which split the TV audience 50/50, in is it, or isn't it ?

There are so many things wrong with all that, its hard to know where to start, well apart from "clear and obvious", and I'm actually in favour of it (eventually), but it needs to be transparent, and first of all it needs to be transparent to the paying fans, not the TV audience, so get it on the screen for all to see (oh that's right some of our biggest clubs don't have screens to show it), get the referee on a mike, explaining why he's reviewing it, and what he's seeing that he didn't see first time.

The way its currently being done is just wrong, and its very wrong for the people who are actually in the stadium, and have paid for the game, whether or not the end result is the "right decision", people need to know why its the right decision, otherwise its open to any kind of bent referee/official (ie in the studio) abuse, and its not doing the referee (good or bad) any favours.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Sorry, but how many decisions are controversially given without VAR ?
All pundits agreed after the match, it is a penalty. It may be soft. but it was a penalty. How is it fair that this would otherwise not be given ? we would be screaming at the Ref in the World Cup if he misses a foul and we should have had a pen.

Fans have just taken it for granted that an incorrect decision can determine a result, that’s crazy in my mind but we all just accept it....well until it happens to our club then we all go mental.

Imagine we ALWAYS had var and then it was taken away? People just don’t like change

yes it's going to take a while to get used too and possibly too soon for the World Cup but this is absolutely the way forward
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Did they really?
England captain https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/f...decision-Tottenham-Eric-Dier-Gareth-Southgate

England manager http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43563791

Shearer and Lineker blast the decision on twitter
 
If they carry on with VAR and don't show it on the big screens VAR will be the tipping point where people stop going to the game and stay at home to watch it on TV -
 
stonerblue said:
How long is this 'trial' gonna take to get it right?
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It took other sports a while. We're in a trial period currently. The whole point of any trial is to test the process, and learn from mistakes. There will be a review and tweaks will be made. Give it a chance to complete the process.

I am however, in shock it's going to be used at the World Cup. It's a recepie for disaster and makes you wonder what agenda the powers that be have.
 
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cleavers said:
Its currently shite though.

Take the so called rules for its use....

"Clear and obvious" error, the referee last night gave a corner, didn't see a foul, so someone told him to review it, fine, but where was "clear and obvious" ?

Look at the so called "foul", which one ? The referee didn't see one, there could be two, the pull back from Young, or the accidental treading on the player who was already going down ? Nothing Tarkowski could do about the tread so for me that's not a foul, its accidental contact.

So its reviewed and (as some have said) the "right decision" given.

Now there are 70,000 fans in the stadium, and none of them (nor the referee) see the "foul", and yet are now rewarded with a last minute (ish) penalty.

Finally, not one of the paying fans get to see the "clear and obvious" error for the "foul", yet millions watching on TC get multiple replays, which split the TV audience 50/50, in is it, or isn't it ?

There are so many things wrong with all that, its hard to know where to start, well apart from "clear and obvious", and I'm actually in favour of it (eventually), but it needs to be transparent, and first of all it needs to be transparent to the paying fans, not the TV audience, so get it on the screen for all to see (oh that's right some of our biggest clubs don't have screens to show it), get the referee on a mike, explaining why he's reviewing it, and what he's seeing that he didn't see first time.

The way its currently being done is just wrong, and its very wrong for the people who are actually in the stadium, and have paid for the game, whether or not the end result is the "right decision", people need to know why its the right decision, otherwise its open to any kind of bent referee/official (ie in the studio) abuse, and its not doing the referee (good or bad) any favours.
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I'm for VAR, seen enough of the current system to know it needs sorting out. However, hard to argue with anything youve written.

Implemented very badly. Makes you wonder if it's deliberate
 
cleavers said:
Its currently shite though.

Take the so called rules for its use....

"Clear and obvious" error, the referee last night gave a corner, didn't see a foul, so someone told him to review it, fine, but where was "clear and obvious" ?

Look at the so called "foul", which one ? The referee didn't see one, there could be two, the pull back from Young, or the accidental treading on the player who was already going down ? Nothing Tarkowski could do about the tread so for me that's not a foul, its accidental contact.

So its reviewed and (as some have said) the "right decision" given.

Now there are 70,000 fans in the stadium, and none of them (nor the referee) see the "foul", and yet are now rewarded with a last minute (ish) penalty.

Finally, not one of the paying fans get to see the "clear and obvious" error for the "foul", yet millions watching on TC get multiple replays, which split the TV audience 50/50, in is it, or isn't it ?

There are so many things wrong with all that, its hard to know where to start, well apart from "clear and obvious", and I'm actually in favour of it (eventually), but it needs to be transparent, and first of all it needs to be transparent to the paying fans, not the TV audience, so get it on the screen for all to see (oh that's right some of our biggest clubs don't have screens to show it), get the referee on a mike, explaining why he's reviewing it, and what he's seeing that he didn't see first time.

The way its currently being done is just wrong, and its very wrong for the people who are actually in the stadium, and have paid for the game, whether or not the end result is the "right decision", people need to know why its the right decision, otherwise its open to any kind of bent referee/official (ie in the studio) abuse, and its not doing the referee (good or bad) any favours.
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“Clear and obvious error” is the diktat used by Mike Reilly.
https://football-technology.fifa.com/en/media-tiles/video-assistant-referees-var/

It doesn’t state that wording in the actual VAR rules. That’s how’s hes manipulating it.

www.theifab.com/projects/vars/background-scope

Full rules here.
 
PRINCIPLES
  1. The aim is not to achieve 100% accuracy for all decisions as this would destroy the essential flow and emotions of football
  2. Video assistance is only for key match-changing situations (goals, penalty incidents and direct red cards and mistaken identity) and serious missed incidents
  3. The referee will always make a decision (including ‘no offence’) which will only be changed if the review shows a clear error – “was the decision clearly wrong?”
  4. Video Assistant Referees (VARs) are match officials
  5. Only the referee can initiate a review; VAR and other officials can recommend a review
  6. The referee should be ‘visible’ during the review process to ensure transparency
  7. The final decision will always be taken by the referee
  8. There is no time pressure during a review – accuracy is more important than speed
  9. A match is not invalidated because of malfunction(s) of the VAR technology (same as for goal line technology) or wrong decision(s) involving the VAR (as the VAR is a match official) or a decision not to review an incident
  10. Competitions must use the full IFAB VAR protocol – “one protocol - used by all”
 
It seems ripe for mis-use. For example, last night the ref was told to review the penalty incident by the VAR and then gave a penalty whereas if the VAR hadn't piped up it would have been a corner. So, let's say the VAR wasn't subjective and only piped up for certain teams?
 
Issue I have with it, is say that was us v Rags last night with Taylor as the ref. If we appealed for the penalty I can see no VAR review but if it was at the other end, he would review and find any excuse to give the penalty
 
cleavers said:
Its currently shite though.

Take the so called rules for its use....

"Clear and obvious" error, the referee last night gave a corner, didn't see a foul, so someone told him to review it, fine, but where was "clear and obvious" ?

Look at the so called "foul", which one ? The referee didn't see one, there could be two, the pull back from Young, or the accidental treading on the player who was already going down ? Nothing Tarkowski could do about the tread so for me that's not a foul, its accidental contact.

So its reviewed and (as some have said) the "right decision" given.

Now there are 70,000 fans in the stadium, and none of them (nor the referee) see the "foul", and yet are now rewarded with a last minute (ish) penalty.

Finally, not one of the paying fans get to see the "clear and obvious" error for the "foul", yet millions watching on TC get multiple replays, which split the TV audience 50/50, in is it, or isn't it ?

There are so many things wrong with all that, its hard to know where to start, well apart from "clear and obvious", and I'm actually in favour of it (eventually), but it needs to be transparent, and first of all it needs to be transparent to the paying fans, not the TV audience, so get it on the screen for all to see (oh that's right some of our biggest clubs don't have screens to show it), get the referee on a mike, explaining why he's reviewing it, and what he's seeing that he didn't see first time.

The way its currently being done is just wrong, and its very wrong for the people who are actually in the stadium, and have paid for the game, whether or not the end result is the "right decision", people need to know why its the right decision, otherwise its open to any kind of bent referee/official (ie in the studio) abuse, and its not doing the referee (good or bad) any favours.
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Thats an excellent summary of the issues most have
 
super_city_si said:
It seems ripe for mis-use. For example, last night the ref was told to review the penalty incident by the VAR and then gave a penalty whereas if the VAR hadn't piped up it would have been a corner. So, let's say the VAR wasn't subjective and only piped up for certain teams?
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Exactly. Given that there's always pushing and shoving at corners, they could be intervening at will and awarding penalties whenever it suits.
 
The only way this can possibly work is if teams are given a certain number of challenges in games. Even then we will still have issues.

We also need to sort out the true definition of the offside rule. For example of a player’s feet are onside but his body is leaning forward in an offside position. Such fine margins but we need this to be fully established so we can minimize the grey areas.
 
Dubai Blue said:
Exactly. Given that there's always pushing and shoving at corners, they could be intervening at will and awarding penalties whenever it suits.
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citizen_maine said:
but they can do that at the moment
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But 99.999% of the time they don't.

Irrespective of VAR, what most fans want is CONSISTENCY by the officials (referees, linesmenn, VAR officials, etc) in both approach to incidents and their handling of them. In addition, when disciplinary matters are dealt with at a higher level, that same consistency of approach and punishments should be the norm.

As has been said many times, the match going fans should be kept in the loop as to what is happening, like it is in other sports, and should be able to see on the big screen AND ALSO HEAR the dialogue between the the decision makers. If a Premier League team does not have such screens, it should be made a pre-requisite to have them installed as a condition of PL membership - they can afford them.

Until that happens, there will never be any transparency in what goes on, and, as usual, the fans who actually pay to go the game are being short changed.
 
VAR should be used for penalty decisions only imo so goals can be celebrated without hesitation.

But whatever form of VAR is used, the responsibility for last night's penalty decision was a horrorshow interpretation of the rules of football.
 
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