VAR thread 2022/23

[stonerblue]

It's as if a France v Argentina final was a better outcome.

Not really one for the conspiracy angle but i do like to highlight var incompetence as a counter=point to Hammers view.

 

[stonerblue]

The howler being that some argue they could have had a penalty even though the French player got to the ball first, That’s it?

They’re out the World Cup because they had so many chances to score and couldn’t take them

Stone. Cold. Penalty.

Funny how you think a bad var decision cannot be the reason a team wins or loses yet a bad ref's decision (pre var) could cost a team the match? You were only argueing last week that pre-var refs could, 'cost a club millions in a vital game'.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

The howler being that some argue they could have had a penalty even though the French player got to the ball first, That’s it?

They’re out the World Cup because they had so many chances to score and couldn’t take them

I’m sure every single game will have split decisions at some point by fans - so we can forever just blame VAR for the outcome. Easy.

Just to be clear, it's a howler because #1 the referee stopped play and called the foul on the Moroccan attacker who didn't commit any foul whatsoever #2 the referee not only called a foul on the wrong player but gave him a yellow card #3 the French player while he got a touch on the ball during a "dangerous" slide tackle in the penalty area with his left foot proceeded to trip the Moroccan player on the follow through with his right foot thus taking the attacking player out and preventing a goal scoring opportunity #4 Because VAR which was designed to prevent howlers and "clear and obvious errors" like this was unable to correct the decision

So, whether or not it should have been a penalty is debatable, but what's not debatable was that the referee in fact made a clear and obvious error which was #1 blowing his whistle which, if you don't believe it was a penalty, prevented the play from continuing which stopped Morocco's attempt at scoring in the run of play #2 if you do believe it was a penalty, called a foul on an attacking player who was fouled instead of giving a penalty, either of which VAR was unable to correct upon review.

The other problem is that for some reason the referee did not go to the monitor which would have been appropriate for this situation. Had he gone to the monitor surely he would have seen that the Moroccan player was fouled on the slide tackle, not the other way around and he would have realized that he made the wrong decision on the pitch and then would have had award a penalty upon review in order to reverse his on field decision which he would have seen on the monitor was clearly wrong and needed to be corrected in any way he could. The only way he would have been able to do that was to award a penalty due to how VAR works. So the whole situation just shows how much of a shambles VAR is. VAR failed on several levels here on this incident and it affected the outcome of the match.

Also it just happened that the player who committed the foul Hernandez happened to be the same guy who shoved the English player in the previous match in which many people were calling for him to be red carded due to how bad the shove was, which would have caused him to miss the Morocco match, and this same guy involved in 2 contentious should be / could be penalty decisions 2 matches in a row scored France's first goal that put France ahead of Morocco 1-0.

The bottom line : VAR was unable to correct a clearly wrong decision that was made on the pitch which would have completely changed the match and possibly allowed Morocco to equalize if the correct decision was made on the pitch or via a VAR reversal.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Just to be clear, it's a howler because #1 the referee stopped play and called the foul on the Moroccan attacker who didn't commit any foul whatsoever #2 the referee not only called a foul on the wrong player but gave him a yellow card #3 the French player while he got a touch on the ball during a "dangerous" slide tackle in the penalty area with his left foot proceeded to trip the Moroccan player on the follow through with his right foot thus taking the attacking player out and preventing a goal scoring opportunity #4 Because VAR which was designed to prevent howlers and "clear and obvious errors" like this was unable to correct the decision

So, whether or not it should have been a penalty is debatable, but what's not debatable was that the referee in fact made a clear and obvious error which was #1 blowing his whistle which, if you don't believe it was a penalty, prevented the play from continuing which stopped Morocco's attempt at scoring in the run of play #2 if you do believe it was a penalty, called a foul on an attacking player who was fouled instead of giving a penalty, either of which VAR was unable to correct upon review.

The other problem is that for some reason the referee did not go to the monitor which would have been appropriate for this situation. Had he gone to the monitor surely he would have seen that the Moroccan player was fouled on the slide tackle, not the other way around and he would have realized that he made the wrong decision on the pitch and then would have had award a penalty upon review in order to reverse his on field decision which would have seen was clearly wrong.

Also it just happened that the player who committed the foul Hernandez happened to be the same guy who shoved the English player in the previous match in which many people were calling for him to be red carded due to how bad the shove was, which would have caused him to miss the Morocco match, and the same gu who scored France's first goal that put France ahead of Morocco 1-0.

The bottom line : VAR was unable to correct a clearly wrong decision that was made on the pitch which would have completely changed the match and possibly allowed Morocco to equalize.

But the ref had already blown up - so how could VAR have done anything to allow Morocco the chance to equalise?
The ref saw two players challenge for the ball, his angle it looked like Boufal went in and clattered the French player (who was rolling around in agony) so he blows up for a foul. That’s going to always happen in the game. And if VAR intervene for every single 50/50 challenge than the game will not be allowed to flow at all

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

But the ref had already blown up - so how could VAR have done anything to allow Morocco the chance to equalise?
The ref saw two players challenge for the ball, his angle it looked like Boufal went in and clattered the French player (who was rolling around in agony) so he blows up for a foul. That’s going to always happen in the game. And if VAR intervene for every single 50/50 challenge than the game will not be allowed to flow at all

lol wait a minute, from his angle, he saw Hernandez slide tackling the Moroccan attacker, he saw him take out his legs with the slide tackle and he saw the Moroccan player go down in the penalty area but for some reason decided to call a foul on the Morocco player, and not only that but decided to give him a yellow card.

Then, despite having VAR at his disposal, did not take the action to go to the monitor and actually observe what happened so he could see he made a clear and obvious mistake. Probably because VAR in its utter shambles doesn't allow you to reverse a foul decision unless a penalty is awarded. But the referee obviously never had an opportunity to make that decision himself, surely because the VAR crew knew how this incident exposes the flaws of VAR and they decided that it wasn't a penalty because he got a touch on the ball, even though that doesn't discount a penalty from being awarded.

Getting a touch on the ball first before taking out the legs of your opponent on the follow through (with the other leg mind you) doesn't mean it can't be a penalty. If it was the same leg who got the ball it would be one thing. Given the fact that the wrong decision was clearly made and the fact that many observers saw it as a penalty, at the very least, it needed to go to the monitor so the referee could at least have seen that he made the wrong decision and he would have had an opportunity to correct his decision by giving a penalty.

Now you could argue that VAR should now change its rules to allow the referee to reverse the foul decision without giving a penalty, but of course that opens up a whole other can of worms. This situation highlights a major flaw with VAR and why it's pragmatically unworkable. There is no practical way to correct this referee mistake if he decides that upon reviewing the footage it shouldn't be a penalty but also recognizes that it wasn't a foul by the Moroccan player.

The fact is he never went to the monitor to even see that he made the wrong decision. The VAR failed in informing him to the fact that made the wrong decision in giving a yellow card to a player who without a doubt did not commit any foul whatsoever and at worst arguable deserves a penalty. Even without giving a penalty, the referee made a clear and obvious error in a critical situation that influenced the match and VAR or the referee was unable to take the appropriate steps to (even remotely) correct the injustice. VAR failed here and the referee mistake cost Morocco a chance at equalizing.

 

[halfcenturyup]

But the ref had already blown up - so how could VAR have done anything to allow Morocco the chance to equalise?
The ref saw two players challenge for the ball, his angle it looked like Boufal went in and clattered the French player (who was rolling around in agony) so he blows up for a foul. That’s going to always happen in the game. And if VAR intervene for every single 50/50 challenge than the game will not be allowed to flow at all

I assume VAR did check the incident as they are supposed to check every potential penalty, no? And everyone was screaming penalty. So I suppose they agreed with the referee.

From my pov, and IIRC, the defender touched the ball but not cleanly. The attacker could have followed up and retrieved the ball, but was taken out by the defender's follow through. Sounds like a penalty to me. If the defender had cleanly taken the ball out of the play of the attacker, then no penalty.

Is this business about touching the ball before you clatter someone in the LOTG somewhere?

 

[Bluearmy]

But the ref had already blown up - so how could VAR have done anything to allow Morocco the chance to equalise?
The ref saw two players challenge for the ball, his angle it looked like Boufal went in and clattered the French player (who was rolling around in agony) so he blows up for a foul. That’s going to always happen in the game. And if VAR intervene for every single 50/50 challenge than the game will not be allowed to flow at all

Im normally with you 100%, but think you have this wrong. Plenty of instances of a ref blowing and VAR correcting decisions after. One famously after the final whistle was blown for the rags, see below…

Why were Man Utd allowed a penalty kick after the final whistle? | Goal.com UK

Here's what you need to know about why Manchester United were awarded a spot-kick after the referee blew for the final whistle

www.goal.com

This was a clear error by the ref. Never a foul or booking by the morocco player. Yes the french guy played the ball first but his follow thru is the issue and weve been told a lot simply playing the ball does not negate what comes after….

For me, this is exactly the type of decision VAR should step in for. It cant step in for every decision i agree but this has game changing potential. And so should have been looked at and corrected accordingly. Slightly surprised by your take on this considering were both advocates for VAR…

 

[Blue Mist]

Not really one for the conspiracy angle but i do like to highlight var incompetence as a counter=point to Hammers view.

I don't either I was just messing. Its not corrupt, just totally incompetent and it keeps wrapping itself up in knots trying to prove its working.

 

[Blue Mist]

If the Morrocan player had already been booked, that would have been his second yellow and he'd have made history. The only player to get sent off for being fouled.
What a great system.

 

[Bluearmy]

I assume VAR did check the incident as they are supposed to check every potential penalty, no? And everyone was screaming penalty. So I suppose they agreed with the referee.

From my pov, and IIRC, the defender touched the ball but not cleanly. The attacker could have followed up and retrieved the ball, but was taken out by the defender's follow through. Sounds like a penalty to me. If the defender had cleanly taken the ball out of the play of the attacker, then no penalty.

Is this business about touching the ball before you clatter someone in the LOTG somewhere?

In short no it isnt. Touching the ball has little relevance to whether a foul has taken place. The french player clatters the Moroccan recklessly. Impeding him accordingly. Not sure how some dont see that as a foul/penalty. It certainly is according to the current laws of the game.