VAR thread 2022/23

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Careful. You will have someone asking you: if you really believe that, why do you continue watching?

We continue watching because our hope for a fair deal can never be truly and wholly quashed by the shit PiGMOL, the PL and the FArce force out of their bowels on a weekly basis.

 

[bluenova]

But the trainer isn’t supposed to come on. For any treatment, save for a serious injury, the player is supposed to leave the field in order to be treated. If they did that there would be no value in lying down.

Yes - but I'm saying it's the "injuries" where the treatment isn't needed that are the problem. The ref still needs to check with the player if they need treatment. They don't waste much actual time when added up, but slow down/break up the game.

The ref could enforce the 6 second rule in these cases, and there's obviously talk of introducing a rule for taking throw ins within a time limit, but it would change the whole culture around injuries. I suspect most teams don't really want that as it would affect how all the other minor injuries are treated during a match.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It’s never going to be 100% transparent and consistent- there’s always going to be grey areas and certain decisions we can point to happening in one game and not another.

What VAR has done is reduce the amount of incorrect decisions than before VAR and we can rule out certain offsides and penalty’s etc. the ref has a opportunity for a second look if he is unsure - the pros weigh out the cons for me

Well that is where we disagree I guess.

I think it can be 100% transparent. They choose not to make it so, so they should be criticised. I still strongly believe that if communications between referee and VAR are broadcast we will discover two things: one, referees actually know the laws and are surprisingly good at applying them; and two, your average fan and pundit has no in-depth knowledge of the laws and how they should be applied. I really don't see a downside.

As far as consistency is concerned, they need to address issues like, for example, why a shirt-pull in midfield, entirely in keeping with the way a game is played, 6 seconds before a goal is scored is pulled back for a referee review, but a clear example of standing on a standing foot in the penalty area isn't. It may be that hearing the communications will tidy that up, of course. Until then, they aren't doing themselves any favours. And yes, I am aware there is some subjectivity involved. But whose? Who decides if a tug is enough to disallow a goal? The referee apparently (as long as we assume he isn't under pressure just to rubber stamp a referral). Fair enough. But who decides if a "stamp" is sufficient to rule out a penalty? VAR apparently. So who is refereeing the game actually? They really don't do themselves any favours.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Well that is where we disagree I guess.

I think it can be 100% transparent. They choose not to make it so, so they should be criticised. I still strongly believe that if communications between referee and VAR are broadcast we will discover two things: one, referees actually know the laws and are surprisingly good at applying them; and two, your average fan and pundit has no in-depth knowledge of the laws and how they should be applied. I really don't see a downside.

As far as consistency is concerned, they need to address issues like, for example, why a shirt-pull in midfield, entirely in keeping with the way a game is played, 6 seconds before a goal is scored is pulled back for a referee review, but a clear example of standing on a standing foot in the penalty area isn't. It may be that hearing the communications will tidy that up, of course. Until then, they aren't doing themselves any favours. And yes, I am aware their is some subjectivity involved. But whose? Who decides if a tug is enough to disallow a goal? The referee apparently (as long as we assume he isn't under pressure just to rubber stamp a referral). Fair enough. But who decides if a "stamp" is sufficient to rule out a penalty? VAR apparently. So who is refereeing the game actually? They really don't do themselves any favours.

Transparency is the key, and it isn't there at present. PiGMOL do not want it , but why exactly ?

 

[Stephen230]

Fair enough. I was really being a bit snide following the Mahrez discussion we had earlier, for which apologies.

But tell me, do you think the Mahrez decision in the end was correct? It may be that you do, in which case fair enough again. Or do you think following protocol prevented the referee from reviewing a decision that maybe he didn't see clearly?

Sometimes I am confused whether the objective is to get things right, or to "let" the referees potentially make "mistakes" without re-refereeing.

Watching live, I thought Mahrez was looking for it. But didn’t have a great view and they didn’t show it on Match of the Day so I haven’t really got a worthwhile opinion on it.

As for the overriding objective of VAR. I think the general aim is two fold. Firstly to correct mistakes of a “factual” nature. Off sides, line calls for penalties. ( West Ham the other day ) Handballs when scoring a goal ( Rashford V Wolves) And then you have the more controversial correcting of ‘clear and obvious’ mistakes. Which will never fail to annoy people because with all the guidelines in the world, you’re always going to be talking about an opinion.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Watching live, I thought Mahrez was looking for it. But didn’t have a great view and they didn’t show it on Match of the Day so I haven’t really got a worthwhile opinion on it.

As for the overriding objective of VAR. I think the general aim is two fold. Firstly to correct mistakes of a “factual” nature. Off sides, line calls for penalties. ( West Ham the other day ) Handballs when scoring a goal ( Rashford V Wolves) And then you have the more controversial correcting of ‘clear and obvious’ mistakes. Which will never fail to annoy people because with all the guidelines in the world, you’re always going to be talking about an opinion.

The media control the narrative. It's like it never happened.

The likes of Sky/BT/BBC could call it out, but the fact they don't leads me to think they are being manipulated by the PL with the dangling carrot of 'broadcasting rights' in exchange for helping to control the narrative.

It also amazes we how quickly 'controversial' video clips are removed from Google search results and social media (Twitter/Facebook).

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Ducking hell, tried everything to rule that goal out.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Watching live, I thought Mahrez was looking for it. But didn’t have a great view and they didn’t show it on Match of the Day so I haven’t really got a worthwhile opinion on it.

As for the overriding objective of VAR. I think the general aim is two fold. Firstly to correct mistakes of a “factual” nature. Off sides, line calls for penalties. ( West Ham the other day ) Handballs when scoring a goal ( Rashford V Wolves) And then you have the more controversial correcting of ‘clear and obvious’ mistakes. Which will never fail to annoy people because with all the guidelines in the world, you’re always going to be talking about an opinion.

FWIW, I thought Mahrez over-dramatised the fall as well. Twisted and shouted, not helped by the fact that he was up a second later chasing the ball. Not sure the referee could have been expected to see the actual contact but refer post 983 in the post-match thread for clear video of his boot distorting on impact. Difficult not to lose balance in those circumstances.

But, that notwithstanding, I cannot understand, for the love of God, the difference between VAR determining a factual offside and referring to the referee for subjective elements (interfering, deliberate play etc..) and VAR determining an actual contact and referring to the referee for subjective elements (seriousness, effect on player).

You will tell me that's not the protocol. But I would ask then, why not?

We are probably going round in circles here. It just boils down to the fact that, imo, VAR isn't implemented very well.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Didn’t VAR check the footage, would have seen the player stepping on Mahrez’ foot but decided it wasn’t a penalty?

 

[Bluearmy]

Transparency is the key, and it isn't there at present. PiGMOL do not want it , but why exactly ?

Because it would expose them as being bent….