VAR thread 2022/23
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Stephen230
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Not only would be that be very difficult to administer it would also be be giving an advantage to teams who genuinely injure players due to foul play.
Strange that VAR didn't draw the referee's attention to this pull on Harland's shirt when it investigated the possible foul on Stones. Particularly so when we think back to the disallowed Foden goal against Liverpool.
Stephen230
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Howard Webb will be pretty pleased with the first couple of weeks of his tenure I imagine.
His desire to give referees the confidence to stick with their original decision when they think they’re right after been sent to the monitor seems to have worked when Andy Madley stuck to his guns after Mike Dean sent him to the monitor for a potential handball in the Palace, Fulham game.
And two cases where VAR was used for the exact reasons people were crying out for it be introduced in the first place. The handball given when the ball hit the guy in the face during the Arsenal, West Ham game. And the Rashford handball at Wolves. Two clear incorrect decisions by the referee that the VAR corrected with one quick look at a replay.
I’ve no problem with people who think VAR should be scrapped. As long as they don’t overlook that decisions like those two would not be corrected.
His desire to give referees the confidence to stick with their original decision when they think they’re right after been sent to the monitor seems to have worked when Andy Madley stuck to his guns after Mike Dean sent him to the monitor for a potential handball in the Palace, Fulham game.
And two cases where VAR was used for the exact reasons people were crying out for it be introduced in the first place. The handball given when the ball hit the guy in the face during the Arsenal, West Ham game. And the Rashford handball at Wolves. Two clear incorrect decisions by the referee that the VAR corrected with one quick look at a replay.
I’ve no problem with people who think VAR should be scrapped. As long as they don’t overlook that decisions like those two would not be corrected.
Trevor Morley's Tache
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You can't take those figures in isolation. The team with the most time in the opposition penalty area are statistically more likely get more penalties.
Given the amount that City SHOULD have had we should be way out in front on penalties awarded.
halfcenturyup
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Hmm.
On the first point, I thought protocol was not to refer borderline decisions back to the referee? If the referee overrules a referral then surely the VAR didn't follow protocol?
On your second point, this is the classic deflection technique used on here. 95% of the people on here accept that VAR is here to stay, we just want it to be transparent and consistent. It's great that it is correcting obvious referee mistakes, but surely that is the absolute minimum?
Stephen230
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Webb made the point in his interview that he wanted both the referee and the VAR to be more confident in making decisions independently. Taking advantage of the other’s input but not feeling obligated to agree with it if they see it differently.
In the Palace incident, Dean was probably wrong to advise the referee checks the monitor. He maybe thought there was a case that it was a deliberate handball. But it seemed pretty clear that the player headed the ball accidentally onto his own arm, which is specifically given as an example of no handball. Perhaps in the past Madley would have felt obliged to agree with Dean but he correctly stuck to his original decision and an incorrect VAR intervention was avoided. Yes, ideally Dean wouldn’t have got involved at all. But the correct decision was reached in the end, which is the most important thing.
the-ecstacy-of-eight
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I'm afraid that's simply confirmation bias pal
halfcenturyup
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Fair enough. I was really being a bit snide following the Mahrez discussion we had earlier, for which apologies.
But tell me, do you think the Mahrez decision in the end was correct? It may be that you do, in which case fair enough again. Or do you think following protocol prevented the referee from reviewing a decision that maybe he didn't see clearly?
Sometimes I am confused whether the objective is to get things right, or to "let" the referees potentially make "mistakes" without re-refereeing.
The Light Was Yellow Sir
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The laws of the game are quite clear in this respect and yet they are NEVER enforced.
This is from the IFAB laws of the game, on the FA website.
INJURIES
- allows play to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is only slightly injured
- stops play if a player is seriously injured and ensures that the player is removed from the field of play. An injured player may not be treated on the field of play and may only re-enter after play has restarted; if the ball is in play, re-entry must be from the touchline but if the ball is out of play, it may be from any boundary line.
Hilariously, so is the one about the keeper holding the ball for six seconds.
“An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:
- controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it”
I have no doubt, if both those laws were strictly enforced, time wasting would be consigned to history.
Trevor Morley's Tache
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The PiGMOL/PL can stop the arguments once and for all if they really wanted to by releasing all comm's between match officials. The fact that they are dragging their heels speaks volumes.
When Scudamore uttered his infamous 'Strategic plan/new name on the trophy' bollocks he wasn't lying and I don't think we've ever got past that. I genuinely think something is afoot with the way the games are being 'managed'.
Something STINKS.
When Scudamore uttered his infamous 'Strategic plan/new name on the trophy' bollocks he wasn't lying and I don't think we've ever got past that. I genuinely think something is afoot with the way the games are being 'managed'.
Something STINKS.
Trevor Morley's Tache
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Lots of the LoTG are 'selectively' applied.
halfcenturyup
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Careful. You will have someone asking you: if you really believe that, why do you continue watching?
The Light Was Yellow Sir
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Maybe but those two are NEVER applied and, as I said, they’d consigne time wasting to the bin. It’s odd how they’re just ignored across all leagues, European and International games.
Trevor Morley's Tache
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Because I honestly think my team are battling to overcome those who seek to control the game.
I bet there's a treasure trove of evidence sitting in a vault somewhere. But who's going to be the one to step up and blow the lid on it?
I'm not so sure about injuries - Most of the time wasting injuries aren't treated. It's the player going down with cramp as soon as the ball is collected by their own keeper, or waiting till they've got a throw and sitting down.
You might hope that if you get the trainer on, then the ref doesn't add the full extra time, but the real killer is constantly breaking up momentum. The constant 20-30 second breaks when a player sits, but then waves away the ref, and just gets up slowly aren't there in the hope the ref only add on 15-20 seconds, they're done to give everyone a quick breather, to get back in position, and to mentally reset. The constant stop start also gives the attacking team time to think about the seconds slipping away, putting extra pressure on, rather than allowing them to build up momentum.
BlueHammer85
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It’s never going to be 100% transparent and consistent- there’s always going to be grey areas and certain decisions we can point to happening in one game and not another.
What VAR has done is reduce the amount of incorrect decisions than before VAR and we can rule out certain offsides and penalty’s etc. the ref has a opportunity for a second look if he is unsure - the pros weigh out the cons for me
deano ou812
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Partly due to being institutionalised over football and the love of it ..
The Light Was Yellow Sir
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But the trainer isn’t supposed to come on. For any treatment, save for a serious injury, the player is supposed to leave the field in order to be treated. If they did that there would be no value in lying down.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
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I would agree. Nothing more dispiriting from a spectator's viewpoint than City winning another title. The RDAHMeedya will be cockahoop if there's another name on the pot. And what better way to achieve that than by adopting a secretive, opaque system where nobody inside the ground has a clue what is being decided, how it's being decided beyond posting on the screen WHY they are looking at the goal or pen or red card, and then finally telling us WHAT they have decided, with absolutely fuck all in between! It's the 'in-between' bit I want to hear. Once I have that over the speakers then I will accept that the system is transparent. I might still think they are cheating bastards but at least I'll KNOW they're cheating bastards.
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