VAR thread 2022/23

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Alan Harper's Tash said:
Clear and obvious syntax needs binning. Communication needs to be much better and all terminology clarified.

That’d stop most of the corruption bleating, but not all as some people need the world to be against their team to enhance their highs when they happen.
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If you bin clear and obvious then you might as well bin referees. The whole VAR concept is modelled around not removing the position of the referee as the man in charge, with VAR being there to help him avoid clear and obvious errors.

I accept of course that this principle was eroded on day one when the decisions relating to offside were deemed a matter of fact rather than a matter of judgement, and the subsequent removal of the clear and obvious element from those deliberations. A move (in my opinion) which set us on the slippery slope to where we are with VAR now.

The fundamental principle of VAR remains sound, unfortunately its implementation has been a bit of a shitshow from day 1
 
flook said:
If you bin clear and obvious then you might as well bin referees. The whole VAR concept is modelled around not removing the position of the referee as the man in charge, with VAR being there to help him avoid clear and obvious errors.

I accept of course that this principle was eroded on day one when the decisions relating to offside were deemed a matter of fact rather than a matter of judgement, and the subsequent removal of the clear and obvious element from those deliberations. A move (in my opinion) which set us on the slippery slope to where we are with VAR now.

The fundamental principle of VAR remains sound, unfortunately its implementation has been a bit of a shitshow from day 1
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I disagree with your first paragraph. Look how rugby uses VAR and you have 2 referees with equal standing discussing and deliberating over decisions. They don’t seem to mind that the ref on the field can’t be undermined.

I doubt many fans would have an issue with that as long as they could see and hear what was going on.
 
Of course there is a remaining curiosity, why Klanfield and Old Toilet are allowed to not have big screens for the VAR decisions. Don’t have anything to hide do they…
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
I disagree with your first paragraph. Look how rugby uses VAR and you have 2 referees with equal standing discussing and deliberating over decisions. They don’t seem to mind that the ref on the field can’t be undermined.

I doubt many fans would have an issue with that as long as they could see and hear what was going on.
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Thats fine, I'd have no problem with implementing the rugby approach, in particular the open conversation element.

My point being if you remove clear and obvious you have fundamentally changed the underlying principle of its introduction in the first place, which is what we as fans bought into, and more importantly, so did the clubs who approved its introduction. To change that principle would, I suspect, involve a significant process.

Again, I'm not saying I disagree with that, but I can't see it happening in the forseeable
 
flook said:
Thats fine, I'd have no problem with implementing the rugby approach, in particular the open conversation element.

My point being if you remove clear and obvious you have fundamentally changed the underlying principle of its introduction in the first place, which is what we as fans bought into, and more importantly, so did the clubs who approved its introduction. To change that principle would, I suspect, involve a significant process.

Again, I'm not saying I disagree with that, but I can't see it happening in the forseeable
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I think the issue is the subjectivity of what is clear and obvious to one person isn’t the same as it is to someone else.
 
Jam Tomorrow said:
Of course there is a remaining curiosity, why Klanfield and Old Toilet are allowed to not have big screens for the VAR decisions. Don’t have anything to hide do they…
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Lol. They have probably fixed Man Utd to win 5 out the last 10 league seasons as well haven't they?
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Tried making this point , practically all clubs forums think VAR is corrupt and against them - everyone is getting tied in knots and just screaming corruption at every bad decision.
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Every set of fans thinks their club is special so they think they’re different from all other clubs and think that they’re more important than they really are so every single set of fans in the country think their team is treated more harshly than all the others… and they all really do think that; every forum in the country has a thread moaning about it.

In reality no clubs are special, no clubs are any different to any others, no clubs are as important as their fans think they are, and no clubs are purposely singled out for preferential or discriminatory treatment.

There might be some subconscious bias with some officials scared of certain managers or sets of fans or overawed by the occasion or atmosphere or certain stadiums, but if there really is corruption and match fixing in the sport it is at a much much more micro level than that.

Liverpool and Villa fans will be moaning like fuck today about why the linesman put his flag up when he did and why the ref blew when he did, when Coutinho put the ball in the net to make it 2-1 to them. Had the flag not gone up (like it shouldn’t have as they’re not supposed to in the middle third of the pitch where the box is and VAR is supposed to look at those), and the City players not stopped and Ederson had dived at full stretch, it’s still very possible that Coutinho still screamered that one off the underside of the bar and Villa could have gone on to win. If it was the other way around and we’d been denied in a similar fashion we’d be moaning like fuck today ourselves.

I’m not one of those who’ll say “over the course of the season all those decisions level themselves out” because some seasons seem to be a season of them going against you, sometimes they do even out, and at other times there seems to be a season of them that go in your favour more often than not.

Don’t get me wrong, VAR could and should be miles better than it is (in rugby they still get decisions wrong but not to the level of footy), but it’s not corrupt like people claim. If I thought it was I’d be organising protests, walk-outs of stadiums or maybe even ditching the sport full stop. I fucking would not be carrying on watching the sport and having the odd moan. If I really thought it was corrupt I’d be doing something about it.
 
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Alan Harper's Tash said:
I disagree with your first paragraph. Look how rugby uses VAR and you have 2 referees with equal standing discussing and deliberating over decisions. They don’t seem to mind that the ref on the field can’t be undermined.

I doubt many fans would have an issue with that as long as they could see and hear what was going on.
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Haven't watched rugby for a long time but isn't it the referee who initiates a VAR review in rugby?
 
When Var was being introduced to the Premier League we all thought great..it should end all the dodgy decisions that occur such as dubious offsides leading to a goal, red card offences missed etc.
The way it was supposed to work was it was to intervene on clear and obvious mistakes...so how come if a mistake is so clear and obvious why does it take fucking ages to come to a decision and numerous camera angles to pinpoint a clear and obvious mistake?
To me if a decision takes more than 10 seconds to see if there has been an error then it's obviously not a clear and obvious mistake.
Forensically checking multiple cameras and multiple angles negates it being clear and obvious.
The problem with var is the people using it ..they are totally useless and should be held accountable for any errors they make.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
I think it can be either way, especially when looking at bad tackles and punches missed, but I’m not 100% sure to be honest.
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Not sure either, but I think the ref asks for VAR help when something happens he didn't see clearly, after alerted by a linesman or another player. The ref keeps control, then.

Could be talking bollocks, though.
 
blue by birth said:
When Var was being introduced to the Premier League we all thought great..it should end all the dodgy decisions that occur such as dubious offsides leading to a goal, red card offences missed etc.
The way it was supposed to work was it was to intervene on clear and obvious mistakes...so how come if a mistake is so clear and obvious why does it take fucking ages to come to a decision and numerous camera angles to pinpoint a clear and obvious mistake?
To me if a decision takes more than 10 seconds to see if there has been an error then it's obviously not a clear and obvious mistake.
Forensically checking multiple cameras and multiple angles negates it being clear and obvious.
The problem with var is the people using it ..they are totally useless and should be held accountable for any errors they make.
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This has been my argument all along, though I apply 15 seconds rather than 10

it's not rocket science really, adopt that principle, add in open comms between officials and VAR crew, and most conspiracy theories would go away. There would still be arguments about subjective decisions, but thats part and parcel of football, that isn't ever going away without killing the game completely
 
How strange that VAR is being scrutinized more after this weekend then at any other time. BBC running it on their sports page. Could it be we got away with one for a change?
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Either way, it seems more rational and calm than in football.
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Rugby referees carry more authority with the players, and therefore the fans, I guess. And Rugby is a higher scoring game, results are unlikely to be affected too much by a single decision when the score is 7 scoring plays to 5, rather than 1-0. I expect. Possibly.

All sports are different, the way VAR is implemented should reflect that, I suppose.
 
Eds said:
It’s blatantly obvious to all on here bar two, or has @Blue Mist changed sides, that there is something acutely wrong with the why VAR is being used. The concept is fine, it’s the people using it that’s the problem. Interesting that Oliver, when told to go to the screen yesterday, stuck to his decision despite it being wrong in the first place. Leeds penalty, Newcastle goal both should have been given and having allowed the West Ham goal it shouldn’t have been overturned. Villa goal isn’t up for discussion as the ref blew and it was a couple of se ones later the shot came in, by which time defenders had stopped and Eddie just waved at it. It is every week that it is happening yet nobody says a word about how shit it is. We have pundits who don’t even know the LOTG preaching to us about how wonderful it is, are they just as stupid.bWith each passing week the ‘brand’ is becoming more like WWE. Transparency is the first thing that should happen so the conversations can be heard, What’s there to hide? Corruption and cheating right in front of our eyes.
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I agree, its the application that is fundamentally flawed !
The major flaw for me is the offside application, particularly when VAR deals in millimetres. Yes, we see red and blue lines neatly drawn across the pitch and these are used to determine the decision. Do we know if these are drawn at the precise moment the ball is kicked?
What we don't see, is another picture. with lines drawn, 1 or 2 frames beforehand !
We all assume that the picture we see is the correct moment that the ball is touched but how do we know? Those milliseconds could be the difference between a goal or an offside. If they can roll the picture forward and back, frame by frame, in DRS cricket decisions, why not football? At least we could see for ourselves the correct moment the ball is touched !!
 
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