We are not mentally weak

[Damocles]

I didn't take Damocles post as insulting, not one bit. I always read with interest what he has to say (apart from anything to do with Kompany..) because as a rule he makes a lot of sense on a lot of subjects. He's actually one of my favourite posters.
That said, after nodding in agreement to the first couple of paragraphs I stopped when he said about the mental weakness, or perceived mental weakness - "I have always put this at the door of Vincent Kompany"
My reply was flippant in fairness but that's how I felt on reading the post.

But I have always put it at his door because I believe that as not just the de jure leader of the team as Captain, but one of the longest serving players respected by all then his mental attitude tends to rub off on others and run downhill. His mental attitude as a key figure in that dressing room is ten times more influential for example than somebody like Gael Clichy who has been here for a length of time, seems a popular bloke and played lots of games for us. It's a bigger thing than him alone of course but he does have the power to pull us out of that just as the various managers and coaches we had did.

I've said on numerous occasions that this might just be a personal thing because I neither respond to or use Kompany's leadership style. His response to visibily trying harder isn't inspirational to me because it attempts to suggest that firstly I wasn't trying my best previously, and secondly that I'm a professional who needs large and dramatic shows of effort to get over the finishing line. I much prefer cool leaders who recognise the talents of those around them and understand that pressure is the ultimate enemy here rather than effort.

In the past I've used the soldiers under fire analogy. In that situation would you want a leader who is a bit Hollywood about everything and tries to inspire through grandiose speech or actions, or do you want a leader who says "keep calm lads, remember your training, concentrate on what you've been told and we'll all come out the other side here"?

My favourite example of this is actually from that Soriano lecture in Abu Dhabi where he talked about Guardiola and a Super Cup Final game where they went into extra time. Barca were constantly knocking on the door and just couldn't break it down against a tough Monaco defence. The players were losing their discipline and started "trying too hard" for lack of a better phrase. Here's what he said to them:



That to me is perfect and exactly what we need. "Don't play passes into the middle" (Barca's game is horseshoe football like ours now), "As always, play our way", "play with the ball", "they are playing for a counter and won't change, this is why more than ever we have to play our game", "we know how good we are, we know what we can do", "don't worry, have patience, don't go crazy, keep passing the ball, everybody has to keep playing the same passes, keep moving, keep being dangerous".

Constantly reinforcing to remain calm, constantly reinforcing the belief in his style of football, telling players that it will come if they let it.

Now here's Kompany talking about his ideas on leadership:



"I shout a lot", "be calm in those moments when you need to bring the message across", "fire the team up, I believe that is a really important role", "be more vocal". "We have some great players in the team, even if we're losing 4 or 5 nil we keep shouting "we need to run more" and the team does pick it up", "you've got to show it, shout it out that we're going to do it better", "you need to be the first person to fight fires on the pitch", "defend your teammates", "don't let them take advantage of you".

Constantly talking about fighting battles, about how more running, and more shouting is the key. Only needing to remain calm in those moment when you need to put across tactical messages.

This is my problem with Kompany, I believe that he's a great leader for 90% of games but there's 10% of games which are extreme pressure situations where his leadership actually hinders us more than it helps us and we need a calming influence rather than somebody who will attempt to put more energy and more effort into performances. And this creates that constant feedback loop that I think we see all the time where the team gets a bit more nervous energy so the crowd gets more nervous energy feeding it to each other. Which is great right up until something goes badly or a decision goes against us then it turns into anger and frustration at the referee or UEFA or some cheating player. Footballers and crowds form a symbiotic circle on a matchday where they feed off each other's energy and performance, something that isn't recognised enough either by the clubs or the fans ultimately.

I think in those situations a calming influence rather than somebody seeing the nervous energy then attempting to put that into a frenzy of activity is required which is why I've always had a bee in my bonnet about Kompany in those situations. He's not the only one obviously, Hart, Milner, Zab and others are just as culpable but none of them are the Captain and the man that we look to in a time of crisis on the pitch.

 

[bluemoon32]

I think there's certainly an element of 'flat track bully' about a few of our players

 

[Danamy]

But I have always put it at his door because I believe that as not just the de jure leader of the team as Captain, but one of the longest serving players respected by all then his mental attitude tends to rub off on others and run downhill. His mental attitude as a key figure in that dressing room is ten times more influential for example than somebody like Gael Clichy who has been here for a length of time, seems a popular bloke and played lots of games for us. It's a bigger thing than him alone of course but he does have the power to pull us out of that just as the various managers and coaches we had did.

I've said on numerous occasions that this might just be a personal thing because I neither respond to or use Kompany's leadership style. His response to visibily trying harder isn't inspirational to me because it attempts to suggest that firstly I wasn't trying my best previously, and secondly that I'm a professional who needs large and dramatic shows of effort to get over the finishing line. I much prefer cool leaders who recognise the talents of those around them and understand that pressure is the ultimate enemy here rather than effort.

In the past I've used the soldiers under fire analogy. In that situation would you want a leader who is a bit Hollywood about everything and tries to inspire through grandiose speech or actions, or do you want a leader who says "keep calm lads, remember your training, concentrate on what you've been told and we'll all come out the other side here"?

My favourite example of this is actually from that Soriano lecture in Abu Dhabi where he talked about Guardiola and a Super Cup Final game where they went into extra time. Barca were constantly knocking on the door and just couldn't break it down against a tough Monaco defence. The players were losing their discipline and started "trying too hard" for lack of a better phrase. Here's what he said to them:



That to me is perfect and exactly what we need. "Don't play passes into the middle" (Barca's game is horseshoe football like ours now), "As always, play our way", "play with the ball", "they are playing for a counter and won't change, this is why more than ever we have to play our game", "we know how good we are, we know what we can do", "don't worry, have patience, don't go crazy, keep passing the ball, everybody has to keep playing the same passes, keep moving, keep being dangerous".

Constantly reinforcing to remain calm, constantly reinforcing the belief in his style of football, telling players that it will come if they let it.

Now here's Kompany talking about his ideas on leadership:



"I shout a lot", "be calm in those moments when you need to bring the message across", "fire the team up, I believe that is a really important role", "be more vocal". "We have some great players in the team, even if we're losing 4 or 5 nil we keep shouting "we need to run more" and the team does pick it up", "you've got to show it, shout it out that we're going to do it better", "you need to be the first person to fight fires on the pitch", "defend your teammates", "don't let them take advantage of you".

Constantly talking about fighting battles, about how more running, and more shouting is the key. Only needing to remain calm in those moment when you need to put across tactical messages.

This is my problem with Kompany, I believe that he's a great leader for 90% of games but there's 10% of games which are extreme pressure situations where his leadership actually hinders us more than it helps us and we need a calming influence rather than somebody who will attempt to put more energy and more effort into performances. And this creates that constant feedback loop that I think we see all the time where the team gets a bit more nervous energy so the crowd gets more nervous energy feeding it to each other. Which is great right up until something goes badly or a decision goes against us then it turns into anger and frustration at the referee or UEFA or some cheating player. Footballers and crowds form a symbiotic circle on a matchday where they feed off each other's energy and performance, something that isn't recognised enough either by the clubs or the fans ultimately.

I think in those situations a calming influence rather than somebody seeing the nervous energy then attempting to put that into a frenzy of activity is required which is why I've always had a bee in my bonnet about Kompany in those situations. He's not the only one obviously, Hart, Milner, Zab and others are just as culpable but none of them are the Captain and the man that we look to in a time of crisis on the pitch.

But I have always put it at his door because I believe that as not just the de jure leader of the team as Captain, but one of the longest serving players respected by all then his mental attitude tends to rub off on others and run downhill. His mental attitude as a key figure in that dressing room is ten times more influential for example than somebody like Gael Clichy who has been here for a length of time, seems a popular bloke and played lots of games for us. It's a bigger thing than him alone of course but he does have the power to pull us out of that just as the various managers and coaches we had did.

I've said on numerous occasions that this might just be a personal thing because I neither respond to or use Kompany's leadership style. His response to visibily trying harder isn't inspirational to me because it attempts to suggest that firstly I wasn't trying my best previously, and secondly that I'm a professional who needs large and dramatic shows of effort to get over the finishing line. I much prefer cool leaders who recognise the talents of those around them and understand that pressure is the ultimate enemy here rather than effort.

In the past I've used the soldiers under fire analogy. In that situation would you want a leader who is a bit Hollywood about everything and tries to inspire through grandiose speech or actions, or do you want a leader who says "keep calm lads, remember your training, concentrate on what you've been told and we'll all come out the other side here"?

My favourite example of this is actually from that Soriano lecture in Abu Dhabi where he talked about Guardiola and a Super Cup Final game where they went into extra time. Barca were constantly knocking on the door and just couldn't break it down against a tough Monaco defence. The players were losing their discipline and started "trying too hard" for lack of a better phrase. Here's what he said to them:



That to me is perfect and exactly what we need. "Don't play passes into the middle" (Barca's game is horseshoe football like ours now), "As always, play our way", "play with the ball", "they are playing for a counter and won't change, this is why more than ever we have to play our game", "we know how good we are, we know what we can do", "don't worry, have patience, don't go crazy, keep passing the ball, everybody has to keep playing the same passes, keep moving, keep being dangerous".

Constantly reinforcing to remain calm, constantly reinforcing the belief in his style of football, telling players that it will come if they let it.

Now here's Kompany talking about his ideas on leadership:



"I shout a lot", "be calm in those moments when you need to bring the message across", "fire the team up, I believe that is a really important role", "be more vocal". "We have some great players in the team, even if we're losing 4 or 5 nil we keep shouting "we need to run more" and the team does pick it up", "you've got to show it, shout it out that we're going to do it better", "you need to be the first person to fight fires on the pitch", "defend your teammates", "don't let them take advantage of you".

Constantly talking about fighting battles, about how more running, and more shouting is the key. Only needing to remain calm in those moment when you need to put across tactical messages.

This is my problem with Kompany, I believe that he's a great leader for 90% of games but there's 10% of games which are extreme pressure situations where his leadership actually hinders us more than it helps us and we need a calming influence rather than somebody who will attempt to put more energy and more effort into performances. And this creates that constant feedback loop that I think we see all the time where the team gets a bit more nervous energy so the crowd gets more nervous energy feeding it to each other. Which is great right up until something goes badly or a decision goes against us then it turns into anger and frustration at the referee or UEFA or some cheating player. Footballers and crowds form a symbiotic circle on a matchday where they feed off each other's energy and performance, something that isn't recognised enough either by the clubs or the fans ultimately.

I think in those situations a calming influence rather than somebody seeing the nervous energy then attempting to put that into a frenzy of activity is required which is why I've always had a bee in my bonnet about Kompany in those situations. He's not the only one obviously, Hart, Milner, Zab and others are just as culpable but none of them are the Captain and the man that we look to in a time of crisis on the pitch.

Something i've noticed is that Kompany is no where near as vocal on the pitch as what he was during our first title win, i think he's lost that aura he used to carry to be honest

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Watched the second half of the WBA - Everton game last night. Everton were the better team but went 2-0 down. Then they got their heads down, went for it and won 3-2. I can only recall two away games in the last three seasons (Sunderland last season and Everton the season before) where we went behind and came back to win. I can recall far more where we threw away 2 goal leads or threw away points when we'd been leading. Also plenty of games we've won but where we've taken our foot off the gas. The 4-1 v the rags springs to mind, where we were 4 up in 50 minutes and just relaxed.

Whatever Macini's faults, I don't recall that being the case under him too often. So a lot of the blame must be on Pellegrini I think as it's his job to fashion the right mentality and get rid of players who don't have it. But I'm also sick of hearing players in the media saying that such-and-such a setback will make them stronger or that the latest defeat will spur them on, then playing like a bunch of puddings then next game.

 

[K-Bo]

I'm inclined to agree that there's been a lack of fortitude. Not always, not in every difficult situation, every time, but often enough where it is a concern. We seem to particularly struggle with being frontrunners, and tend to collapse either just when we've caught someone up/when we have the chance to take our lead out of sight.

 

[TFC]

But I'm also sick of hearing players in the media saying that such-and-such a setback will make them stronger or that the latest defeat will spur them on, then playing like a bunch of puddings then next game.

One of my pet peeves also PB. I understand the lads have to do interviews as part of the dog and pony show, but these soundbites promising much then showing up and delivering the exact opposite do my head in.

 

[mancity1]

All we expect is effort and given the quality of the footballers when the effort and commitment is there we are usually ok but no doubt the players have not learnt how to put games to bed when they should be or how to cope when trailing to get back into games on the scoreboard and part of that comes from the managers ability to make the decisions that change the coarse of the game in our favour but part of that also comes from the players heads to not accept the situation and work there way around it or through it as the case may be.

 

[NQCitizen]

But I have always put it at his door because I believe that as not just the de jure leader of the team as Captain, but one of the longest serving players respected by all then his mental attitude tends to rub off on others and run downhill. His mental attitude as a key figure in that dressing room is ten times more influential for example than somebody like Gael Clichy who has been here for a length of time, seems a popular bloke and played lots of games for us. It's a bigger thing than him alone of course but he does have the power to pull us out of that just as the various managers and coaches we had did.

I've said on numerous occasions that this might just be a personal thing because I neither respond to or use Kompany's leadership style. His response to visibily trying harder isn't inspirational to me because it attempts to suggest that firstly I wasn't trying my best previously, and secondly that I'm a professional who needs large and dramatic shows of effort to get over the finishing line. I much prefer cool leaders who recognise the talents of those around them and understand that pressure is the ultimate enemy here rather than effort.

In the past I've used the soldiers under fire analogy. In that situation would you want a leader who is a bit Hollywood about everything and tries to inspire through grandiose speech or actions, or do you want a leader who says "keep calm lads, remember your training, concentrate on what you've been told and we'll all come out the other side here"?

My favourite example of this is actually from that Soriano lecture in Abu Dhabi where he talked about Guardiola and a Super Cup Final game where they went into extra time. Barca were constantly knocking on the door and just couldn't break it down against a tough Monaco defence. The players were losing their discipline and started "trying too hard" for lack of a better phrase. Here's what he said to them:



That to me is perfect and exactly what we need. "Don't play passes into the middle" (Barca's game is horseshoe football like ours now), "As always, play our way", "play with the ball", "they are playing for a counter and won't change, this is why more than ever we have to play our game", "we know how good we are, we know what we can do", "don't worry, have patience, don't go crazy, keep passing the ball, everybody has to keep playing the same passes, keep moving, keep being dangerous".

Constantly reinforcing to remain calm, constantly reinforcing the belief in his style of football, telling players that it will come if they let it.

Now here's Kompany talking about his ideas on leadership:



"I shout a lot", "be calm in those moments when you need to bring the message across", "fire the team up, I believe that is a really important role", "be more vocal". "We have some great players in the team, even if we're losing 4 or 5 nil we keep shouting "we need to run more" and the team does pick it up", "you've got to show it, shout it out that we're going to do it better", "you need to be the first person to fight fires on the pitch", "defend your teammates", "don't let them take advantage of you".

Constantly talking about fighting battles, about how more running, and more shouting is the key. Only needing to remain calm in those moment when you need to put across tactical messages.

This is my problem with Kompany, I believe that he's a great leader for 90% of games but there's 10% of games which are extreme pressure situations where his leadership actually hinders us more than it helps us and we need a calming influence rather than somebody who will attempt to put more energy and more effort into performances. And this creates that constant feedback loop that I think we see all the time where the team gets a bit more nervous energy so the crowd gets more nervous energy feeding it to each other. Which is great right up until something goes badly or a decision goes against us then it turns into anger and frustration at the referee or UEFA or some cheating player. Footballers and crowds form a symbiotic circle on a matchday where they feed off each other's energy and performance, something that isn't recognised enough either by the clubs or the fans ultimately.

I think in those situations a calming influence rather than somebody seeing the nervous energy then attempting to put that into a frenzy of activity is required which is why I've always had a bee in my bonnet about Kompany in those situations. He's not the only one obviously, Hart, Milner, Zab and others are just as culpable but none of them are the Captain and the man that we look to in a time of crisis on the pitch.

totally agree. This is where I think Demichelis has been pivotal at times. The most professional, pragmatic and calculating display we've put in as a team under Pellegrini was him leading the defence against Hull after Kompany was sent off.

I admire his passion and commitment but if we're looking to Toure and Kompany for stability and a decisive intelligence we are looking in the wrong place imo. I do wonder how the other players would respond to Fernandinho being given more of a commanding role, has all the ingredients for me.

 

[Pam]

Oh I am so cheesed off with this last fortnight.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Oh I am so cheesed off with this last fortnight.

Go and watch the stuff over at the Academy in between the first team games. I was pee-off after the Juve and Wiiiiist Hiiiiim games, and then the non-flagwaving fiasco at The Lane, but then I went and watched the women. Gets a bit of perspective back!!