West Ham (A) - EFL Cup R4 - Post-Match Thread

[youngbob]

That's a very good appraisal, although I will dispute the Palmer critique.

I thought he was very good indeed, in a higher position than normal. He showed some really great moments when he got the ball in to his feet.

Foden is perhaps an unfair barometer, as he is a worldy. I do recall Foden getting sent off in an early Champions League game because he tried to play at 100mph and the ball kept whizzing by him.

Sad to accept that last season's Champions League final should have been Fern's last game.

Will obviously be more than happy if Palmer turns into something special, and I should have conceded earlier that he was playing slightly out of position by being stuck up front, but when watching him I do struggle to see the parts of his game that just need tweaking for him to turn into a great player. I think he grew into the game as it went on and definitely showed some nice touches but there's something about his game at the moment that just lacks for me - some of his decision making is a wee bit suspect and his lack of strength really showed in the first half last night when almost every attack broke down with Palmer facing away from goal.

Of course, you don't need to be a "great player" in every sense of the word (or another Foden) to fit in at City. I'm sure he'd be more than happy as a squad player, chipping in. Of course he's only 19 as well so there's still a couple of seasons left before the pressure is really on for him to go through the gears, but I think he'll end up being sold for a nice number, a la Jack Harrison, Douglas Luiz, Eric Garcia, Angelino, Tosin, etc. Players who clearly have enough talent to play in the first tier but maybe not enough to hold down a starting place at City. Obviously no shame in that, and I want Palmer to be good enough to stay around, but I can't lie and say I'm excited about him because that wouldn't be honest of me.

I think it was worth giving Fernandinho another year because we're clearly not as monied after the pandemic to improve every position that needed strengthening. Letting Fernandinho go would have meant having to sign another DM in a hurry in a market that was pretty static this summer, or promoting one of the academy lads who's not ready yet. I think it's one of those you can only properly assess with hindsight, by which point it's too late. I think if we can limit him to a squad role then we'll be just fine. What I really don't want is for Pep to use him like he did Yaya during that Centurions season, i.e. cutting him out of the team completely and then randomly starting him in games against energetic teams who ran rings around him. It was a bit unfair.

I remember going to the home leg of the League Cup semi-final against Bristol City and watching their Championship midfielders dart past Yaya while he floundered to keep up. I remember walking away from the ground afterwards thinking that Pep had really hung him out to dry. Pep and Fernandinho obviously have a better relationship than Pep did with Yaya, and Fernandinho can still keep up better, but I think if Pep still wants to use him then he's got to put more legs in front of him. I thought he looked a bit exposed last night because Gundogan's not exactly a Duracell bunny (and still regaining fitness) and De Bruyne's coming back from an injury of his own. If Fernandinho plays these days you sort of want Bernardo in front of him to protect him a bit.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

This is the first league cup game we've lost in 5 years, and the only other cup games we've lost for four years are semi finals, so I don't know what your sample size is looking like here.

His sample size, like all these kind of posters, is one game. My Dad's mate who comes with us is the same. After the Sounthampton game it was all "we'll struggle to make top 4 this year" . Ever noticed every year they say that exact phrase?

Some people who don't know very much about football so cannot gain any perspective.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Will obviously be more than happy if Palmer turns into something special, and I should have conceded earlier that he was playing slightly out of position by being stuck up front, but when watching him I do struggle to see the parts of his game that just need tweaking for him to turn into a great player. I think he grew into the game as it went on and definitely showed some nice touches but there's something about his game at the moment that just lacks for me - some of his decision making is a wee bit suspect and his lack of strength really showed in the first half last night when almost every attack broke down with Palmer facing away from goal.

Of course, you don't need to be a "great player" in every sense of the word (or another Foden) to fit in at City. I'm sure he'd be more than happy as a squad player, chipping in. Of course he's only 19 as well so there's still a couple of seasons left before the pressure is really on for him to go through the gears, but I think he'll end up being sold for a nice number, a la Jack Harrison, Douglas Luiz, Eric Garcia, Angelino, Tosin, etc. Players who clearly have enough talent to play in the first tier but maybe not enough to hold down a starting place at City. Obviously no shame in that, and I want Palmer to be good enough to stay around, but I can't lie and say I'm excited about him because that wouldn't be honest of me.

I think it was worth giving Fernandinho another year because we're clearly not as monied after the pandemic to improve every position that needed strengthening. Letting Fernandinho go would have meant having to sign another DM in a hurry in a market that was pretty static this summer, or promoting one of the academy lads who's not ready yet. I think it's one of those you can only properly assess with hindsight, by which point it's too late. I think if we can limit him to a squad role then we'll be just fine. What I really don't want is for Pep to use him like he did Yaya during that Centurions season, i.e. cutting him out of the team completely and then randomly starting him in games against energetic teams who ran rings around him. It was a bit unfair.

I remember going to the home leg of the League Cup semi-final against Bristol City and watching their Championship midfielders dart past Yaya while he floundered to keep up. I remember walking away from the ground afterwards thinking that Pep had really hung him out to dry. Pep and Fernandinho obviously have a better relationship than Pep did with Yaya, and Fernandinho can still keep up better, but I think if Pep still wants to use him then he's got to put more legs in front of him. I thought he looked a bit exposed last night because Gundogan's not exactly a Duracell bunny (and still regaining fitness) and De Bruyne's coming back from an injury of his own. If Fernandinho plays these days you sort of want Bernardo in front of him to protect him a bit.

Appreciate the detailed response, bud. I actually think Palmer has the talent to be an elite player for both us and England.

He is sure to get stronger at 19 and with his height, is beautifully balanced. He actually reminds me of Paul Lake.

He's a little intimidated at times with some of our bigger names, but that will get easier.

Palmer, a bit like Phil, we aren't sure what his best position is just yet, as the academy are turning out kids now who can play in a variety of positions across the front six.

He does sometimes want to play his way out of situations in the wrong areas and got caught out doing just that in his most-recent England U21 game.

I suppose that's kids for you, but I'm hopeful this one can be afforded the time by Pep to convince a few more of his quality.

 

[City_Shirts]

 

[wolfie1988]

Need a striker

 

[B\connellblue]

His sample size, like all these kind of posters, is one game. My Dad's mate who comes with us is the same. After the Sounthampton game it was all "we'll struggle to make top 4 this year" . Ever noticed every year they say that exact phrase?

Some people who don't know very much about football so cannot gain any perspective.

As opposed to those who think they do .

 

[Jokithedruid]

Appreciate the detailed response, bud. I actually think Palmer has the talent to be an elite player for both us and England.

He is sure to get stronger at 19 and with his height, is beautifully balanced. He actually reminds me of Paul Lake.

He's a little intimidated at times with some of our bigger names, but that will get easier.

Palmer, a bit like Phil, we aren't sure what his best position is just yet, as the academy are turning out kids now who can play in a variety of positions across the front six.

He does sometimes want to play his way out of situations in the wrong areas and got caught out doing just that in his most-recent England U21 game.

I suppose that's kids for you, but I'm hopeful this one can be afforded the time by Pep to convince a few more of his quality.

Wasn't Paul Lake more of a 8 than a forward? Seen alot of people compared Palmer with Mahrez and see him as his successor in when Mahrez's contract ends.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Wasn't Paul Lake more of a 8 than a forward? Seen alot of people compared Palmer with Mahrez and see him as his successor in when Mahrez's contract ends.

I think an 8 might be Palmer's best position. He glides through the middle. Lakey was also a great turn at centre-back, which shows you how cultured he was.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Appreciate the detailed response, bud. I actually think Palmer has the talent to be an elite player for both us and England.

He is sure to get stronger at 19 and with his height, is beautifully balanced. He actually reminds me of Paul Lake.

He's a little intimidated at times with some of our bigger names, but that will get easier.

Palmer, a bit like Phil, we aren't sure what his best position is just yet, as the academy are turning out kids now who can play in a variety of positions across the front six.

He does sometimes want to play his way out of situations in the wrong areas and got caught out doing just that in his most-recent England U21 game.

I suppose that's kids for you, but I'm hopeful this one can be afforded the time by Pep to convince a few more of his quality.

I'm convinced of his quality and could see it when I saw him in the youth cup. I think he will make it with us. You can see the balance and control, and there was one lovely moment where he ran with the ball and fed Gundo in behind who should have scored.

Like all players coming through, there's a massive gulf in quality to bridge between EDS and first team. Foden took 3 years to really bridge it. Palmer I expect the same. I'm impressed with the way that he's being assimilated and hope we don't get the exact same as we had with Foden, everyone clamouring for more game time when he isn't ready. In fact I've just thought of something: whilst dropping out of the League Cup eases the fixture list, it reduces the opportunities for these kids to play.

 

[frothy]

well done and you make our great club proud in win lose or draw
loud and proud

First time we've been to the London Stadium on the coach usually drive and stay over, the coach park is over a mile away from the ground didn't get back to Denton until 3.30am