When can I officially be concerned?

[Soulboy]

Leeds ran out of money and had to sell their players. They prove my point, they were in the semi finals of the champions league when they had money to spend, third division when they didn't. Newcastle are the example "how not to manage a club", but they've never been amongst the richest (neither have Leeds FWIW).

As for richest, I mean the clubs that spend the most win the most.

#.Net Spend 04 - 09...Purchased...........Sold................Nett.........Per Season
1...Manchester City...£292,750,000...£71,900,000...£220,850,000...£36,808,333
2...Chelsea.............£267,950,000...£123,300,000..£144,650,000...£24,108,333
3...Liverpool............£247,730,000...£134,080,000..£113,650,000...£18,941,667
4...Tottenham.........£262,000,000...£163,550,000....£98,450,000...£16,408,333
5...Aston Villa..........£130,200,000...£37,255,000.....£92,945,000...£15,490,833
6...Sunderland.........£154,080,000....£67,900,000.....£86,180,000...£14,363,333
9...Stoke City..........£39,100,000.....£10,095,000....£29,005,000....£4,834,167
7...Man United.........£188,650,000...£161,050,000....£27,600,000....£4,600,000
8...Everton..............£102,100,500...£78,200,000.....£23,900,500....£3,983,417
18..West Ham..........£94,145,000.....£71,325,000....£22,820,000.....£3,803,333
15..Hull...................£22,415,000.....£2,975,000.....£19,440,000.....£3,240,000
10..Fulham..............£59,925,000.....£40,725,000....£19,200,000.....£3,200,000
12..Birmingham City...£60,800,000.....£41,825,000....£18,975,000.....£3,162,500
11..Bolton...............£42,400,000.....£26,300,000....£16,100,000......£2,683,333
13..Wolves..............£22,075,000.....£15,575,000.....£6,500,000......£1,083,333
14..Burnley..............£10,505,000.....£8,625,000......£1,880,000.......£313,333
15..Blackburn Rovers.£49,052,000.....£57,290,000....-£8,238,000.....-£1,373,000
16..Wigan...............£57,850,000.....£66,250,000....-£8,400,000......-£1,400,000
17..Portsmouth........£92,200,000.....£107,240,000...-£15,040,000....-£2,506,667
18..Arsenal.............£112,050,000....£138,320,000...-£26,270,000....-£4,378,333


Good news then Mr Moomba, join me in a glass of champagne.
A toast and good riddance to Arsenal.

And in the past 4 years they have won...???

And if you take the £240m City spent in the last 18 months we'd be behind Burnley!

But interesting reading all the same.

Chelsea biggest spenders = best team at the moment.

The Rags figures skewed by the sale of Fake Ronaldo.

But I take your point, it isn't just all about money. The quality of the manager also clealy comes in to it. Oops...

 

[KenTheLandlord]

And in the past 4 years they have won...???

And if you take the £240m City spent in the last 18 months we'd be behind Burnley!

But interesting reading all the same.

Chelsea biggest spenders = best team at the moment.

The Rags figures skewed by the sale of Fake Ronaldo.

But I take your point, it isn't just all about money. The quality of the manager also clealy comes in to it. Oops...

which was the original point. Whilst money has a bearing, badly spent money, does nothing.
Unfortunately we don't have the pull of Arsenal, Man United, Chelsea and Liverpool.

While I think Wenger is the best operator in the transfer market, when was the last time they won something?

FWIW, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man United and Chelsea have been the biggest spenders on wages consistently in the past 5 year, often doubling 5th and 6th place.

With only Man United and Chelsea winning something.

We are not a million miles apart Moomba, i think we all realise, Money, correct minded players and Time come into the mix. Hughes has spent the money, he seems to have got a good collection of players and now the slow, boring bit, the time comes into play. Money cannot hurry it, and players need it. It why its pointless arguing wether Hughes should be in or out, lets see until the end of the season and then form an opinion. Only then will he have had the money, players and time.

 

[Soulboy]

And in the past 4 years they have won...???

And if you take the £240m City spent in the last 18 months we'd be behind Burnley!

But interesting reading all the same.

Chelsea biggest spenders = best team at the moment.

The Rags figures skewed by the sale of Fake Ronaldo.

But I take your point, it isn't just all about money. The quality of the manager also clealy comes in to it. Oops...

which was the original point. Whilst money has a bearing, badly spent money, does nothing.
Unfortunately we don't have the pull of Arsenal, Man United, Chelsea and Liverpool.

While I think Wenger is the best operator in the transfer market, when was the last time they won something?

FWIW, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man United and Chelsea have been the biggest spenders on wages consistently in the past 5 year, often doubling 5th and 6th place.

With only Man United and Chelsea winning something.

We are not a million miles apart Moomba, i think we all realise, Money, correct minded players and Time come into the mix. Hughes has spent the money, he seems to have got a good collection of players and now the slow, boring bit, the time comes into play. Money cannot hurry it, and players need it. It why its pointless arguing wether Hughes should be in or out, lets see until the end of the season and then form an opinion. Only then will he have had the money, players and time.

Excellent last paragraph.

Hughes has had the money, he has signed excellent players (or at least they were before he signed them!) and now it's just the time to develop it all.

I have said on numerous occasions that he WILL be given the time, not only this season, but probably even next as well... my only difference of opinion with you is that you believe time will finally see him come good.

I don't.

He has absolutely no track record to support that view, and your patience is based simply on hope and faith, not based on his previous achievements.

Harry Redknapp took over a badly failing club, got them to the Carling Cup final, has them challenging 4th. spot, spending less money, in less time, playing attractive football.

That's what a good manager can do.

I hope you're right about Hughes, I just fail to see it.

 

[Bonol]

I have always said Hughes out from day 1

What I want to know is most people still seem to be a fan and I rally hope he cuts it

BUT

When am i offically allowed to be genuinley concerned about the state of play

Not on fucking day one thats for sure.

 

[whp.blue]

totally agree with soulboy
all the back the manager clan are banking on blind faith and trying to convince everyone it is a fact that given time Hughes will be the greatest manager ever

 

[bluenova]

#.Net Spend 04 - 09...Purchased...........Sold................Nett.........Per Season
1...Manchester City...£292,750,000...£71,900,000...£220,850,000...£36,808,333
2...Chelsea.............£267,950,000...£123,300,000..£144,650,000...£24,108,333
3...Liverpool............£247,730,000...£134,080,000..£113,650,000...£18,941,667
4...Tottenham.........£262,000,000...£163,550,000....£98,450,000...£16,408,333
5...Aston Villa..........£130,200,000...£37,255,000.....£92,945,000...£15,490,833
6...Sunderland.........£154,080,000....£67,900,000.....£86,180,000...£14,363,333
9...Stoke City..........£39,100,000.....£10,095,000....£29,005,000....£4,834,167
7...Man United.........£188,650,000...£161,050,000....£27,600,000....£4,600,000
8...Everton..............£102,100,500...£78,200,000.....£23,900,500....£3,983,417
18..West Ham..........£94,145,000.....£71,325,000....£22,820,000.....£3,803,333
15..Hull...................£22,415,000.....£2,975,000.....£19,440,000.....£3,240,000
10..Fulham..............£59,925,000.....£40,725,000....£19,200,000.....£3,200,000
12..Birmingham City...£60,800,000.....£41,825,000....£18,975,000.....£3,162,500
11..Bolton...............£42,400,000.....£26,300,000....£16,100,000......£2,683,333
13..Wolves..............£22,075,000.....£15,575,000.....£6,500,000......£1,083,333
14..Burnley..............£10,505,000.....£8,625,000......£1,880,000.......£313,333
15..Blackburn Rovers.£49,052,000.....£57,290,000....-£8,238,000.....-£1,373,000
16..Wigan...............£57,850,000.....£66,250,000....-£8,400,000......-£1,400,000
17..Portsmouth........£92,200,000.....£107,240,000...-£15,040,000....-£2,506,667
18..Arsenal.............£112,050,000....£138,320,000...-£26,270,000....-£4,378,333

This doesn't mean we have the best team, just that we're playing catch up at a time when transfers are at an all time high.

What intersted me about this table when I first saw it a few months ago (when city were about 5th) is that it shows how important wages are as opposed to transfer fees. There has been a lot of publicity recently about Hull having a £40m wage bill but Utd and Chelsea both spend around £150,000,000! That's money going straight out of the club rather than transfer fees that might be recouped when the player is sold.

Arsenal, who make a big play of their transfer dealings, have a wage bill of well over £100m a year. It's that spending is the difference.

 

[squirtyflower]

I have always said Hughes out from day 1

says it all really
you can't have a rational discussion with someone who had already made their mind up regardless

 

[lastmanback]

You sound like a right piss and moan merchant just waiting to winge. waiting for us to fail so you can say i did'nt want him in the first place. Support the team till He's sacked then start again with the next manager etc etc etc. How have you managed to support city this long if you think this is bad.

 

[moomba]

With only Man United and Chelsea winning something.

Liverpool have won a European Cup, made another final and won an FA Cup in that time I think.

We are not a million miles apart Moomba, i think we all realise, Money, correct minded players and Time come into the mix. Hughes has spent the money, he seems to have got a good collection of players and now the slow, boring bit, the time comes into play. Money cannot hurry it, and players need it. It why its pointless arguing wether Hughes should be in or out, lets see until the end of the season and then form an opinion. Only then will he have had the money, players and time.

What needs to be factored in is performance, all the time in the world will not count for anything if people at all levels are not performing to expectations. As far as I'm concerned

I don't agree that it's pointless arguing Hughes in or out, it's what this forum is all about. My personal argument is the same on yours on that particular point though

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Excellent last paragraph.

Hughes has had the money, he has signed excellent players (or at least they were before he signed them!) and now it's just the time to develop it all.

I have said on numerous occasions that he WILL be given the time, not only this season, but probably even next as well... my only difference of opinion with you is that you believe time will finally see him come good.

I don't.

He has absolutely no track record to support that view, and your patience is based simply on hope and faith, not based on his previous achievements.

Harry Redknapp took over a badly failing club, got them to the Carling Cup final, has them challenging 4th. spot, spending less money, in less time, playing attractive football.

That's what a good manager can do.

I hope you're right about Hughes, I just fail to see it.

I don't think Tottenham were particularly failing, they had won the Carling Cup, and Ramos, like Benetez, to a degree, couldn't grasp English football when the dust had settled.

Back to Hughes, remember we beat Chelsea to the punch for him, so he was on the radar, he hauled Blackburn into Europe and consistently got Blackburn to finish higher than us. He has international experience and got the best out of a poor team.

This seems to be the sticking point. He got the best out of mediocre players can he do it with better players?, time will tell. Its clear we both want City to do well and ultimatley when Hughes goes (as all managers leve in the end), he will have won something.

It seems to me at the moment he is doing a lot of trial and error, mixing, experimenting and seeing which combo's click. A relatively huge number of player have come to the club in a short space of time. This causes, temperament problems, ideas, opinions, team cohesion, flow, understanding and many other problems to be solved before settling on the final 11. Rarely now, in football managers have that time, which lead me to conclude he has the backing of the owners for a good while yet. His track record shows he can gel a team, this is what i base my opinion on, and i ca see it coming good with Hughes.