Why are we always so poor against Klopp’s Liverpool?

Ederson could've been on the halfway line for all I care, the goal shouldn't have been given

Sure but is was close. You win some and you lose some. Besides there were plenty of chances to clear before the goal went in.

We were just comprehensively beaten. No shots on target. No threat, just empty possession.

If we are going to win the CL we have to learn how to deal with teams, crowds and nightslike this. I hope we make the return leg just as hostile an atmosphere.
 
Counter-pressing/ Gegenpressing, whatever you want to call it was a modern invention to counter the ever increasing possession game and Klopp is the best in the world at getting his teams to play it.
 
Sure but is was close. You win some and you lose some. Besides there were plenty of chances to clear before the goal went in.

We were just comprehensively beaten. No shots on target. No threat, just empty possession.

If we are going to win the CL we have to learn how to deal with teams, crowds and nightslike this. I hope we make the return leg just as hostile an atmosphere.

There was threat, just fluffed our lines on the final ball. Sane counter after their first was a fantastic opportunity to equalise, fluffed. Sane trying to volley in from an angle when Jesus free inside, fluffed. Sane passing the ball back to Karius with Silva and Jesus well placed inside, fluffed.

We scored but ruled out because the linesman didn't give us the benefit of the doubt that he gave them and then there's Sterling being denied a clear penalty.

We carried a threat, especially in the second half but repeatedly fucked up or were fucked over.
 

He makes excellent tactical analysis videos. This one is brilliant. Highlights a big issue with Fernandinho when we are pressed well. Goes against what most ardent Fernandinho fans think so not sure it will get coverage.

In a nutshell, Firmino presses our backline, but rather than trying to actually win the ball, his press is to stop Fernandinho from taking the ball on the pivot. Most teams press from behind Fernandinho with the hope of pouncing on his first touch. Liverpool press ahead of him so it makes it look like Otamendi or Kompany are being pressed, but that's not the case. Firmino is simply removing the option for us to use Fernandinho in the build up. A truly elite player in this position would be intelligent enough and brave enough to adapt to this situation. Fernandinho shows a lack of desire to actually want the ball as he is seemingly worried about the follow up press by their midfield 3, particularly as he will be pivoting into it.

The more he actually disengages with being on the ball, the rasher he becomes when he finally gets on it. He finds it very difficult to play through big momentum shifts because he offers very little control. He then tries to make his mark in a physical way but loses all tactical discipline. The vast majority of the mini implosions we have suffered under Pellegrini and Pep have occurred with Fernandinho at the heart of the team. He was also a part of the Brazil team that imploded against Germany.

He along with a few other well liked players are not of the quality of their counterparts at the very top clubs in Europe and it is difficult to get that point across because so many people are blind to it, mainly because it is only an issue in a small percentage of games. For us to win the CL it needs to be a non issue.
 
He makes excellent tactical analysis videos. This one is brilliant. Highlights a big issue with Fernandinho when we are pressed well. Goes against what most ardent Fernandinho fans think so not sure it will get coverage.

In a nutshell, Firmino presses our backline, but rather than trying to actually win the ball, his press is to stop Fernandinho from taking the ball on the pivot. Most teams press from behind Fernandinho with the hope of pouncing on his first touch. Liverpool press ahead of him so it makes it look like Otamendi or Kompany are being pressed, but that's not the case. Firmino is simply removing the option for us to use Fernandinho in the build up. A truly elite player in this position would be intelligent enough and brave enough to adapt to this situation. Fernandinho shows a lack of desire to actually want the ball as he is seemingly worried about the follow up press by their midfield 3, particularly as he will be pivoting into it.

The more he actually disengages with being on the ball, the rasher he becomes when he finally gets on it. He finds it very difficult to play through big momentum shifts because he offers very little control. He then tries to make his mark in a physical way but loses all tactical discipline. The vast majority of the mini implosions we have suffered under Pellegrini and Pep have occurred with Fernandinho at the heart of the team. He was also a part of the Brazil team that imploded against Germany.

He along with a few other well liked players are not of the quality of their counterparts at the very top clubs in Europe and it is difficult to get that point across because so many people are blind to it, mainly because it is only an issue in a small percentage of games. For us to win the CL it needs to be a non issue.


Agree with this, I said to my mate after the game it's no coincidence that Fernandinho's worst games for City come against Liverpool.

He's been one of our best players this season but just doesn't suit playing against this lot. I'd prefer to see KDB in the pivot on Tuesday with the Silva's in-front of him. You need to be able to turn on six-pence against Liverpool's press and move the ball or yourself forward quickly to take advantage of the space their players have vacated.
 
Liverpool can’t keep up their energy for 90 mins. Sit in defend and let them run themselves out. After an hour when they are tired attack.
 
One of the 'fatal' flaws (as fatal as a flaw which only pops up against a team which trains 24/7 on pressing & fast as fuck counters can be) we have for the way Pep plays is the lack of pace at CB. We've been sooooo good with the ball and at winning it back in the final third that it hardly ever rears its head. When it does, and it has only really done so against Liverpool, we can look calamitous.

Kompany is still our fastest CB and he's not as quick as he used to be and certainly isn't as quick to turn and run. Otamendi has been superb this season but against good players with pace he panics.

I thought the lobsided 343-come-433 could work vs Liverpool if we completely dominated the ball, and the first 5 mins or so it looked like it was working, but asking Walker, our fastest defender by far, to patrol the entire right flank robbed ourselves of protection back there.

Was thinking after the 4-3 what we could do next season (using players at the club but around the time Fred was pretty much nailed on) against them and came up with something along the lines of

Mendy Fred Fernandinho Maffeo
Laporte Kompany Walker
Ederson

Would it work? dunno but we need to do something and win at Anfield next season. Get this nonsense out of our system​
 
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